"You have a guard who was not trained for the duties they were given. "

 Define "trained for duties" and describe why not being trained for that post means they would not say "Two guys came in last night, ordered me to take a break, and in the morning we found Epstein dead".

 Do they need training for that?

 What part of not being trained for that post makes them incapable of stating that two guys came in unscheduled in the middle of the night?  Why would they rather be silent on the "two guys" and end up prosecuted?


"The guards could have asked to perform a task by their superiors when Epstein was killed."

 What part of having a higher-up force a staff member to take an unscheduled break in the middle of the night makes it impossible for that staff member to say "I was forced to take a break and we found Epstein dead." ?  Instead they would rather be prosecuted then report a direct order?  Why?


 "If they killing people do you really believe those individuals are concerned about protocol?"

 You aren't saying the people on duty killed him, you are saying the people on duty were forced to take an unscheduled break in the middle of the night so "two guys" from the outside could go kill an inmate.  Or are you saying every Federal employee involved in getting "two guys" into a secure housing unit were in on it except the two on duty in the actual area?



"You have not provided an explanation for the bruises on his shoulders and hands."

 You have not provided an explanation about why staff prefer criminal prosecution over reporting the unscheduled break in the middle of the night.

 Why would the staff choose criminal prosecution over reporting that they were forced to leave the area?

 More complexity maybe?  Now there's a separate strike-team assembled to kill the staff families undetected if they report that break maybe?  Or would they use the same "two guys"?




"Opps, camera doesn't work as well."

 Could be, but your claim wasn't a malfunction, its that "two guys" came in and shut them off.  

Think about Watergate. Some guys got busted breaking into a hotel room and they ultimately turned and brought down The President of the United States.

How far up the line would the fallout be for guys busted murdering to protect Clinton, Royal Family, and the other rich and famous? The risks involved in this crime would be among the highest ever in the history of this nation. If they got busted, can you imagine the deal they would have made for their testimony? Would have been far simpler to weather whatever storm came out of Epstein's trial. (Bill Clinton almost certainly raped a woman and his wife almost won the Presidency for crying loud.) But arranging Epstein's murder? I can't see that.

Eegore wrote on 11/18/19 at 10:04:24:



Now your being unreasonable, all most posts in this thread illustrate it is not difficult to reach out to someone in prison.  

Best regards,

 Here's what I was sent today regarding entering a prison as a contractor:

We are not issued ID's or bages, we have to provide state issued ID and swabs are taken of our hands/pockets/tools and run in a machine checking for whatever they look for. Drugs I think. We get stamped in a diferent location each time and must show that stamp, which is invisible unless a special light is put over it at two separate control stations. Our photos are taken upon entry, and exit we can not have our photo taken by the same staff member for in/out. Staff are with us at all times my understanding is I lose my job and so do they and they are imprisoned if I am left unsupervised. I can be prosecuted for willing leaving the supervision or not reporting right away if someone leaves me alone.

I have never felt that anyone was complacent or would leave me alone.

Every tool/nail/screw is counted twice by my staff and prison staff. Each are accounted for during our work, marked and tacked. if we are missing even one screw my understanding is the whole place is locked down and a search is conducted. We are not allowed to be part of the search other than confirming our work locations. I've never been escorted by the same staff twice and we are not allowed to do our exit count with the same staff that counted us in. I waited over an hour for this once.

Cameras are in steel cages from what I have seen, I would need a ladder and torch to cut into them to disable the wiring. We were informe that if an inmate takes control of us, our tools or staff there would be no negotiations for door opening. This means they will let an inmate kill me before they will open a door for them, keeping inmates inside is an absolute. I explained this to my wife before I tookk on the jobs.

 So this may not be every prison, but it is very similar to what I have been through entering military locations.  "He's with Johnny" where I come from is very illegal.  Also they seem to be doing the staff diversity and redundancy that I have been exposed to.  As in I can not be given access inside and outside an area by the same person.

 But again, we don't know, but I think sneaking two guys into a prison, after hours, is a very ineffective way to kill someone locked inside.  Try to make it sound "easy" but I have not been exposed to situations where getting in and out of secure Federal facilities is complacent, easy, and casual.

 Its also a stupid idea when less suspicious means can achieve the same goal.

"Now your being unreasonable, all most posts in this thread illustrate it is not difficult to reach out to someone in prison.  "

 I am not making the connection.  I am asking if the staff are refusing to report they were forced to take a break in the middle of the night and "two guys" came in, then they found a dead inmate, because they have been informed that they or their family will be killed.

 As in covering up a murder by murdering more people.

 Dahmer was killed by another inmate, many inmates are killed by other inmates, inmates do not like child predators, why was this not considered as a feasible option?

"It would be a mistake to suppose the circumstance of a Federal prison is akin to roof access at Wal-Mart, or to use that as a basis for forming any sort of judgement of likelihood."

 Well if its established that Federal Prisons are "easy" to get into then its more believable that two guys got in and killed someone, left, then they prosecute two innocent staff members so nothing looks suspicious.

"To do that, you'd have to enlist the regular Grainger inventory manager or someone like that who comes in and out of the facility often. So much so, the guards just wave him in and don't even log him in, especially at night."

 And you would have to get multiple, 20 or more staff to ignore him, in the middle of the night, when no contractors are ever allowed in.

 And get him access to the camera system.

 And convince different staff to let him into solitary, Grainger guys stroll through Solitary at night no big deal.

 And get staff to give him keys, or access to the control room to open an inmate cell.

 And get staff to never say a word after finding an inmate dead, even though they will go to prison for it.  I know I wouldn't bring it up, I'd just take my chances in court.



"Look, bottom line, when you start imagining the complexity behind a plan to kill him because some of the rich and famous hired you to, the complications are enormous. Not impossible, just enormous and off the charts as for as risk go."

 I agree.  I think people don't think this stuff through before jumping on the bandwagon, then when challenged they try to downplay how hard it really is.  Plenty of contractors stroll around Federal prisons at night unsupervised.  Its not like prisons are built to be secure.


"But, brings up a question. What's the most successful plan like this that has remained unsolved? Jimmy Hoffa? "

 Could be.  Sandy Hook has been pretty successful if that's all being faked, and of course 9/11 would be the big one, but those aren't exactly assassinations.

 Kennedy maybe?

I'd say this PG, of you were to investigate any suicide in a prison setting where the prisoner was a high risk but still managed to kill himself, I'd guess you'd find similar "coincidences ".