WebsterMark wrote on 10/31/19 at 13:22:42:




trump:

Well it is very nice of you to say that. I will say that we do a lot for Ukraine. We spend a lot of effort and a lot of time. Much more than the European countries are doing and they should be helping you more than they are. Germany does almost nothing for you. All they do is talk and I think it's something that you should really ask them about. When I was speaking to Angela Merkel she talks Ukraine, but she  doesn't do anything. A lot of the European countries are the same way so I
think it's something you want to look at but the United States
has been very very good to Ukraine. I wouldn't say that it's
reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not
good but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine.


zellenskyy:

Yes you are absolutely right. Not only 100%, but actually 1000% arid I can tell you the following; I did talk to Angela Merkel and I did meet.with her. I also met and talked with Macron . and I told them that they are not doing quite as much as they need to be doing·on the issues with the
sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not working as much as they should work for Ukraine It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than.the European Union and- I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russian Federation. I would also·like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We. are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes ..


trump:

I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they s_ay Crowdstrike ... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation.   I think you are surrounding yourself with some
of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General
call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible.



zellenskyy:

Yes it is. very important for me and everything that you just mentioned earlier. For me as a President, it is very important and we are open for any future cooperation. We are ready to· open a new page on cooperation in relations between the United States and Ukraine. For that purpose, I just recalled our ambassador from United States and he will be replaced by a very competent and very experienced ambassador who will work hard on making sure that our two nations are getting closer. I would also like and hope to see him having your trust and your confidence and have personal relations with you so we can cooperate even more so I will personally tell you that one of my assistants spoke with Mr. Giuliani just.recently and we are hoping very much that Mr. Giuliani will be able to travel to Ukraine and we will meet once he comes to Ukraine. I just wanted to assure you once again that you have nobody but friends around us. I will make sure that I surround myself with the best and most experienced people.  I also wanted to tell you that we are friends. We are great friends and you Mr. President have friends in our country so we can continue our strategic partnership. I also plan to surround myself with great people and in addition to that investigation,
I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly.  That I can assure you.

trump:

Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair.  A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor 0f New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could _speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that The other thing, There's a lot of. talk about Biden's son,. that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me.


(C&P from a PDF, formatting is off).


So, this would be of no consequence if trump were NOT the president of the United States.

However, it's ILLEGAL for him to ask for favors - dirt on Biden, his potential rival in 2020 -  in return for military aid (or withholding it).

Now mark, you go ahead and tell yourself that this is all fine and dandy and that quid pro quo is how the business world works, then fine.

But THIS IS NOT BUSINESS.

trump wiped his a$$ with the Constitution and didn't even bother to notice. (just like all his a$$ kissers....)

WebsterMark wrote on 10/31/19 at 13:22:42:


Ahhh! That makes the problem so clear- you aren't reasonable.  

The President withheld military aid from an ally at war with Russia to use as leverage for his personal political benefit.   It ain't complex.  He stopped the transfer, waited a week for the Ukrainians to feel scared for their future, then got the Ukrainian President on the phone.   The Ukrainian President said 'we sure could use some more missiles' and Trump said 'but I need something from you, though'.  

It was a shake-down.   We know now that Trump had been pressuring the Ukrainians to do his bidding before the call, but they hadn't complied.   So he concocted this very illegal plan.   When the grown-ups around Trump realized what he was doing, they freaked out, attempted to bury the record.   It would have worked, too- were it not for someone with a conscious speaking up.   Trump didn't press the Ukrainians to demonstrate substantive anti-corruption reforms or actions- his focus was only related to Biden.

Mark, you're like a parent who closes the door on their kid and a child molester, then says they had no idea what was going on in there.  "Show me the proof."   What the fux is wrong with you?

Mavigogun wrote on 10/31/19 at 18:39:39:


Yea, none of that happened. You're a 9/11 conspiracy theorist who sees a pattern in chaos. You're A Beautiful Mind, staring at a wall full of newspaper clippings and imagining letters jumping out to reveal themselves only to you.

You ask where in the transcript Trump's crimes occurred.   'Point me to it", you said.   Then you said you couldn't be bothered to read.

That poses a special sort of challenge- guy who proclaims what the 'facts' are, but is willfully ignorant of the record.    The best I can do for someone like that is to distill events down to key elements- not too many details, not too much depth, or your attention span will be over-taxed.

Your response, Mark, was to question the legitimacy of my presence- rather than speak to the validity of my summation.   This actually provides us a GREAT opportunity to simply illustrate your failure, Mark.    In less than a minute- with minimal effort -this forum would have produced a list of all my posts to this forum.   Had you bothered or thought to do this very easy, basic thing, you would find pictures of my bike, dissembled engine.  

You could answer your own questions- if you asked them with honesty, applied yourself honestly.  But that ain't you.   When the facts don't suit you, you look away.   When you can't look away, you attack the messenger.   Committed bigot, willfully ignorant- you are Trump's base.

Mark, whether integrity is a waste of your time is- as always -entirely up to you.   We'd all be better off were you to value the quality of your own character more.

WebsterMark wrote on 11/01/19 at 04:22:03:


It's a shame you didn't read it.  But then, you're the typical, ignorant trump supporter.  You world thinks trump is truthful and a stable genius....


But hey, I love how you take my posts and make them your own (living in your head) - nicely done.  For being a salesman, you sure don't many original thoughts.....

The fact is mark, you're the one that seems to be obsessed with me.

You call me out ("our friend from Chicago"), you think that Mavi and I are friends, you sent me a PM, etc.  Sorry mark - those are facts.

Tell you what - why not stay in your own head, huh?  (of course, it's probably a lonely place with lots of space - I can't blame you for wanting company...) LOL