verslagen1 wrote on 10/24/19 at 14:09:13:


Based on what, exactly?   Do you have a model in mind?   Or is this more along the lines of “Orville, that thing's never gonna fly”?

Here's one thing for sure: getting anything off the ground is a whole Hell of a lot harder with nay-sayers and saboteurs, rather than folks contributing toward the best effort in good faith.

"There is no right to get healthcare without the responsibility of paying for it. - There should be."

 Where would all this money come from?  We are talking about an astounding amount of money to maintain even one care type in the US.

 I find people tend to isolate "care" into very narrow valleys of what it consists of.

 For instance "Women's" healthcare, or "Cancer Treatment" etc.  The problem is we never stop failing in health, every human will need many forms of care in their lives unless that life is cut short.

 Healthcare can be a "right" but the ability to pay for all forms of care in the US is a tremendous amount of money in a constantly shifting environment.  

 One very difficult topic is how do we offer free care to people who do not attempt to maintain their health?  Do we just fight to keep them alive with public funds?  Where is the cutoff?  Who makes the decision that you aren't trying hard enough?  How are those algorithms established?

"The endless lawsuits have wreaked our health system. "

 That is a large component.  Also the inability to downsize staff and automate or increase efficiency that matches or exceeds livable wages is a large factor.

 We still need humans, we can't increase healthcare volume and quality while automating the system like you can with things like vehicles, food etc.  So wages continue to rise, but you can't increase the volume of patients a human can safely treat at the same rate.

Matchless G11 wrote on 10/24/19 at 17:47:25:



Agreed.  Tort reform is needed.

T And T Garage wrote on 10/24/19 at 20:30:09:


Yes TT
The most sickening law suit I have seen, is one going after a company making the chemo drug for breast cancer treatments. They are asking for those who experience hair loss after the treatments to sue.

So in effect they win (or even if they don't, still lots of fees to defend you're self in court)  The cost of the drug skyrockets and women who have breast cancer cannot afford the drug to save their lives.  

T And T Garage wrote on 10/25/19 at 05:54:15:


While this has developed into an interesting and substantive exploration of national healthcare policy, let's remember why we're talking about it:

Mendacious Spring didn't like us talking about the bigot Warren Hurst, Tennessee's Sevier County Commissioner, citing a homosexual running for the Presidency as a reason to weaken gun restrictions- to which some in the audience clapped and said "amen".

Bigots see hate as legitimating their governance preferences; when called out, they run off in another direction at high speed; if actually held to account, they double down on demagoguery and hate- as though a reflexive validation.  We see it in this space all the time.

"Agreed.  And what's being proposed is a seachange in how the US deals with healthcare."

 Except that if healthcare without requirement to pay is a "right" it can not be infringed upon and so people who repeatedly inject heroine, won't take insulin, refuse physical therapy still have the "right" to healthcare and can not be refused.

 I don't think its possible to say there is a "right" to free healthcare without refusing service, or reducing quality to maintenance levels.  I for one do not think my taxes should go to repeat diabetic patients who just eat what they want and just sell their insulin that I pay for them to have.

"Again, other countries have cracked this, why can't we?"

 They haven't.  

 I think that's the fundamental problem with these comparisons, people think other countries "solved" the problem when they in fact never had it.

 Other countries have solved gun violence, why can't we?

 Other countries have solved homelessness why can't we?

 Other countries have solved Education Debt why can't we?

 This is like someone in Turkey saying we cracked our refugee problem.

 See the issue?  They aren't solving our problem, they never had to, they never had our problem.