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Do facts ever change your mind? (Read 192 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Do facts ever change your mind?
10/07/19 at 07:59:30
 
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Eegore
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Re: Do facts ever change your mind?
Reply #1 - 10/07/19 at 08:09:06
 

 My question is how many people are saying non-public grouped mass shootings will still occur with "Assault Style" weapons if they are banned.

 Everyone knows gang activity, domestic violence, suicides etc. with firearms will not reduce by banning one weapon type.  But who thinks banning the weapon will remove or reduce it from people who want to shoot multiple rounds in rapid-progression into a crowded space?
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Do facts ever change your mind?
Reply #2 - 10/07/19 at 08:15:49
 
So, what are you saying?

And I'm gonna add a bit of the article..


However, it seems that not only are the guns even more popular than before, but crime is also still going down.

The FBI has released its crime data for 2018 and the news is good. Violent crime dropped 3.3 percent in 2018 compared to 2017. According to the report, a decrease was seen across nearly every type of violent crime.

Looking at a 10-year trend, the numbers of violent crimes were down a full 9 percent from 2009 through 2018. The rate shows a more dramatic drop: “There were an estimated 368.9 violent crimes per 100,000 inhabitants in 2018, a rate that fell 3.9 percent when compared with the 2017 estimated violent crime rate and dropped 14.6 percent from the 2009 estimate.”

Homicides with firearms were down 7 percent from 2017. And in stark contrast to the theatrics of last week’s House Judiciary Committee on banning modern sporting rifles, rifles were again only used in 2 percent of homicides, far less than the share committed with knives (11 percent) or hands and feet (5 percent).


All this
Ban them!
Demand by lefties is
Screwed up.

First, no, the right to own them is not determined or affected by your fear.


And it's gonna be just as effective in stopping school shootings as the conveniently located
No Gun Zone signs.
But keep hyperventilating and wringing your hands as you
Demand SOMETHING be done!!!EEEEK!

Want something done to really make a difference?
Arm teachers.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Eegore
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Re: Do facts ever change your mind?
Reply #3 - 10/07/19 at 08:25:31
 

 I'm saying that I wonder what the objective is in regards to banning a specific weapon type.

 Very specifically not asking if the objective is to ban all guns, frog in boiling water etc.  For the sake of this one specific discussion I am, for me, asking in exclusivity what the objective of banning Assault Style weapons is and only that weapon type, excluding the concept of the eradication of all legal gun ownership.

 So if the idea is making AR's harder to get makes them less likely to be used in a mass shooting, will that work?  

 How hard are they to get now?

 Is there a more effective process, or processes to protect from a shooter?

 Is there a way to detect this before it happens?

 What percentage of reduction will actually happen by banning Assault Weapons?  Is it worth the fight if other options work better?

 The real problem is the all or nothing mentality where people either want no gun laws, or no guns.  While they argue criminals get guns and find crowds to use them on.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Do facts ever change your mind?
Reply #4 - 10/07/19 at 09:10:26
 
You're asking reasonable questions.
The banners need to answer.

Yes, there IS a mechanism to limit what crazies do.
Make concealed carry NOT a mental disease to half the country.
Funny how it's
Responsible to protect ourselves with helmets and seatbelts,, but being armed just in case you find yourself in a deadly situation, Ohhh, the Horrors..
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T And T Garage
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Re: Do facts ever change your mind?
Reply #5 - 10/07/19 at 09:20:19
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/07/19 at 09:10:26:
You're asking reasonable questions.
The banners need to answer.

There are no "banners" on this forum.  You'll have to ask outside of this.  Further, the vast majority of democrats don't want blanket bans.

Yes, there IS a mechanism to limit what crazies do.
Make concealed carry NOT a mental disease to half the country.
Funny how it's
Responsible to protect ourselves with helmets and seatbelts,, but being armed just in case you find yourself in a deadly situation, Ohhh, the Horrors..


More guns haven't worked up to this point.  Even more guns won't work in the future.
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Re: Do facts ever change your mind?
Reply #6 - 10/07/19 at 09:32:24
 
Eegore wrote on 10/07/19 at 08:25:31:
"...  Very specifically not asking if the objective is to ban all guns, frog in boiling water etc.  For the sake of this one specific discussion I am, for me, asking in exclusivity what the objective of banning Assault Style weapons is and only that weapon type, excluding the concept of the eradication of all legal gun ownership. ..."


what the objective of banning Assault Style weapons is and only that weapon type
The reason is to eventually ban ALL firearms.

excluding the concept of the eradication of all legal gun ownership

You can't exclude the reason, (all legal gun ownership),
because that, IS the Goal/Reason.

How hard are they to get now?

Exactly the same as any other handgun.
Which is harder than a rifle.

What percentage of reduction will actually happen by banning Assault Weapons?

If it is school shootings, or crime in general,
the answer is the same,
NONE



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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Eegore
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Re: Do facts ever change your mind?
Reply #7 - 10/07/19 at 13:43:43
 
"The reason is to eventually ban ALL firearms."

 I very specifically stated that, for me, I am not addressing this, in this specific thread.  

"You can't exclude the reason, (all legal gun ownership),
because that, IS the Goal/Reason."


 I can.  You can too.

 It's possible to have a conversation about one component of a large and varied topic without always bringing up the same thing.  For me, in this thread, I am not including the banning of all guns as part of my discussion about why a specific firearm type is under scrutiny for being banned.  It prohibits the examination of why this one component is so compelling to the general public.

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Re: Do facts ever change your mind?
Reply #8 - 10/07/19 at 15:27:45
 
Eegore wrote on 10/07/19 at 13:43:43:
 I very specifically stated that, for me, I am not addressing this, in this specific thread.  

I know that, and I very specifically said:
"You can't exclude the reason, (all legal gun ownership),
because that, IS the Goal/Reason."


why a specific firearm type is under scrutiny for being banned.  
Again, because the goal is to ban ALL firearms.

It prohibits the examination of why this one component is so compelling to the general public.

Why is banning a specific firearm, today, now, compelling ?
1. Recent events have given the opportunity to say, 'save lives', when in truth, it is just the first step to banning.
2. Because the Media today is telling everybody how, 'scary' a gun is, to, 'scare' people.
3. Many people believe, because they have been told, banning a specific firearm, will solve all the problems.
4. Many people who don't know what the truth is, believe other people that want to ban guns.
4. The truth, is boring. 'SCARY' is not.



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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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thumperclone
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Re: Do facts ever change your mind?
Reply #9 - 10/07/19 at 15:29:23
 
Eegore wrote on 10/07/19 at 13:43:43:
"The reason is to eventually ban ALL firearms."

 I very specifically stated that, for me, I am not addressing this, in this specific thread.  

"You can't exclude the reason, (all legal gun ownership),
because that, IS the Goal/Reason."


 I can.  You can too.

 It's possible to have a conversation about one component of a large and varied topic without always bringing up the same thing.  For me, in this thread, I am not including the banning of all guns as part of my discussion about why a specific firearm type is under scrutiny for being banned.  It prohibits the examination of why this one component is so compelling to the general public.


me thinks it's fear
that fire arm may be too much like a real assault(military?) weapon
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thumperclone
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Re: Do facts ever change your mind?
Reply #10 - 10/07/19 at 15:30:21
 
Eegore wrote on 10/07/19 at 13:43:43:
"The reason is to eventually ban ALL firearms."

 I very specifically stated that, for me, I am not addressing this, in this specific thread.  

"You can't exclude the reason, (all legal gun ownership),
because that, IS the Goal/Reason."


 I can.  You can too.

 It's possible to have a conversation about one component of a large and varied topic without always bringing up the same thing.  For me, in this thread, I am not including the banning of all guns as part of my discussion about why a specific firearm type is under scrutiny for being banned.  It prohibits the examination of why this one component is so compelling to the general public.


me thinks it's fear
that fire arm may be too much like a real assault(military?) weapon
why are fully automatic weapons outlawed??
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Do facts ever change your mind?
Reply #11 - 10/07/19 at 15:36:19
 
T And T Garage wrote on 10/07/19 at 09:20:19:
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/07/19 at 09:10:26:
You're asking reasonable questions.
The banners need to answer.

There are no "banners" on this forum.  You'll have to ask outside of this.  Further, the vast majority of democrats don't want blanket bans.

Yes, there IS a mechanism to limit what crazies do.
Make concealed carry NOT a mental disease to half the country.
Funny how it's
Responsible to protect ourselves with helmets and seatbelts,, but being armed just in case you find yourself in a deadly situation, Ohhh, the Horrors..


More guns haven't worked up to this point.  Even more guns won't work in the future.



So nobody here wants AR15 banned?
BULLSHIT

And the article, with fbi stats, PROVES
More guns
Less crime.

So
Try again
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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thumperclone
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Re: Do facts ever change your mind?
Reply #12 - 10/07/19 at 16:04:15
 
name one banner jog
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Do facts ever change your mind?
Reply #13 - 10/07/19 at 16:53:25
 
Let the lefties state for the record that they don't support banning the AR15.

Whoever doesn't
Is
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Re: Do facts ever change your mind?
Reply #14 - 10/07/19 at 16:54:01
 

"why are fully automatic weapons outlawed??"

 They aren't.  There are more steps involved in the acquisition, but in any case there is extensive research and information available as to why fully automatics were restricted, along with Sawed-off shotguns and switchblades.

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