SuzukiSavage.com - Good Guys Without Guns

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Re: Good Guys Without Guns
Reply #30 - 08/20/19 at 05:07:23

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 08/19/19 at 15:05:08:

And yet
Teachers are lining UP to get training and qualify for concealed carry.

Not one single teacher I know is or wants to. What's your source on information?

I guess you guys missed that.

Cops, state sanctioned Good Guys with guns, aren't always twenty seconds away.
Had they not been, MORE would have been dead, AND had there been a civilian Good Guy with a gun in the immediate proximity of the shooter, it's possible lives would have been saved.

If "ifs and buts" were candy and nuts.....

Why are you unable to see that?
It was a
Gun Free zone, again.
The shooter only had to worry about cops. There were lots of them on site, according to you, and YET
People DIED,,

You live divorced from reality.
You don't GET to decide if others have the RIGHT to self defense.
Why don't you lefties just admit you want to remove the guns from the hands of the People?

You wanna know how to stop drunks from killing law abiding drivers?
Ban sober people from driving.

Yeah, jog, I've called for the banning of all guns, right?.... Show me where I ever said that. Show me anywhere that I said I want to end concealed carry. Show me where I ever said we should take everyone's guns away.

Stop lying about it to make it fit your fear tactic. The whole "liberals wanna take our guns" has gotten very old.

TT said

Yes, I would wish I had a gun.

But you want to make sure YOU CAN'T.
And I can't.
Nobody can.
Except for the Superior D.N.A. carrying State sanctioned God's.

I never said that - you're lying. You show me where I ever said anything close to that.

Your Bullshit rant about other things you Wish you had
You COULD have.
Nobody is STOPPING you.
And NONE of those other things are your Natural, God given Right.
Everyone has a RIGHT to protect themselves.
If they have a family
They have a Right and an Obligation.

Dude, why do you want to be vulnerable when you don't have to?

You keep SAYING
Adding more guns to the equation is not the answer,,
But what do cops do if Not bring guns into the situation?

Idiotic rant by you jog. But then again, you're a trump supporter and you thought Sandy Hook was a false flag.

Your opinion means jack.

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WebsterMark

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Re: Good Guys Without Guns
Reply #31 - 08/20/19 at 05:27:04

The fact police were on scene that quickly is great, but, that's the exception, not the rule.

Parkland High School timeline

2:19 p.m.

The suspect exited an Uber car, arriving at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School around dismissal time. Uber has confirmed to TIME that Cruz did use the service and said they are working with authorities.

2:21 p.m.

The shooter allegedly enters the school and takes his AR-15 out of a case. He begins shooting into three classrooms, returning to two of them, shot into anther classroom, then shot into two more classrooms before dropping his rifle.

2:28 p.m.

The suspect is believed to have run outside, mixing in with students who were running away from the scene.

2:50 p.m.

Police say the alleged shooter went into a Walmart and bought a drink at a Subway before leaving on foot.

3:01 p.m.

The suspect allegedly walked into a McDonald’s, sat down for a while and then left on foot again.

3:41 p.m.

Cruz was taken into custody by a police officer without incident, after the officer matched the 19-year-old’s clothing with a description being shared by authorities.

That's 7 minutes moving fron room to room. I'd rather have a system in place where schools have a goal to have a couple of regularly trained teachers with access to a firearm. Its a million to one chance, but if I'm in that room, and even if you're in that room, you'd take it.

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Re: Good Guys Without Guns
Reply #32 - 08/20/19 at 12:37:17

Here's another great example - good for this mom and the FBI!

FBI: Truck driver threatened mass shooting at Memphis church

A truck driver who threatened to "shoot up" a church in Memphis and said he was haunted by "spiritual snakes and spiders" people put in his bed was arrested in Indiana, less than a week before the day of the planned attacks, authorities said in newly filed court records.

Thomas Matthew McVicker was arrested in Indianapolis on Friday, according to a criminal complaint unsealed this week. It's the most recent case in a string of men being arrested around the country for threatening to carry out shootings.

McVicker, 38, made "credible threats to conduct a mass shooting and suicide" planned for this coming Thursday, an FBI special agent said in a sworn affidavit.

He was arrested by Indiana State Police and the FBI, said Chris Bavender, an FBI spokesman in Indianapolis.

Earlier this month, a friend of McVicker in Fairhope, Alabama, told a Florida FBI officer McVicker had been considering a mass shooting at a church or killing people on the street.

Later, in a telephone call, the friend said McVicker told her the church shooting would happen when he was in Memphis on Thursday and that he "intended to take his knife and slit the pastor's throat."

His mother told the FBI McVicker owned a Ruger P90 handgun and sometimes uses cocaine and methamphetamine. She also said her son is being treated for schizophrenia. McVicker told his Alabama friend "evil entities entered his body and are torturing him," the affidavit states.

The friend asked McVicker why he wanted to kill innocent people, and he said "they put spiritual snakes and spiders in my bed at night," the FBI agent wrote. "I've only seen them a couple of times but they take form and I can feel them crawling on me and under me," the affidavit states.

The FBI says it confirmed with McVicker's employer that he requested leave time Thursday and that he indicated in the request that he would spend the leave time in Memphis, the affidavit states.

The affidavit doesn't specify a motive, nor does it identify a specific Memphis church. McVicker's friend did not learn of an exact location from the phone call. However, "McVicker insisted that 'something' would happen when he was in Memphis," the affidavit states.

The Memphis Police Department was notified of the threat, which did not mention a specific church, police spokesman Louis Brownlee said Tuesday. Memphis police work regularly with state and federal authorities on these types of threats "to stay ahead of the curve," Brownlee said.

Earle Fisher, pastor at Abyssinian Missionary Baptist Church in Memphis, said he would be reaching out to his congregation to tell them about the threat and inform them that the church has security measures in place.

"It's tragic that we are in a climate that even in your house of worship, in what is supposed to be a sacred and safe space, you have to take up measures that might include making sure that you have armed security in your sanctuary to make sure that your parishioners are safe," Fisher said.

After the initial tip, a task force officer in the FBI's Tampa division conducted much of the investigation, reaching out to McVicker's friend, mother and company, among other things, the affidavit shows. The case "supports our message that the FBI takes all tips from the public seriously and continually works with federal, state and local law enforcement partners to keep our communities safe," Tampa FBI spokeswoman Andrea Aprea said in an email.

Court records in Alabama show McVicker received a ticket for driving a truck in an improper lane in Jefferson County, which includes Birmingham, in June 2014. He was working for Swift Transportation of Gary, Indiana, at the time, records show. McVicker failed to pay the fine until 13 months later, after his driver's license was suspended, records show.

Court records list McVicker's address as Punta Gorda, Florida, but his Alabama friend told the FBI that McVicker lives in his semi. The records don't list a lawyer who could be reached for comment on McVicker's behalf.

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Eegore Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 8403	Re: Good Guys Without Guns Reply #33 - 08/20/19 at 13:34:35 "Not one single teacher I know is or wants to. What's your source on information?" Multiple schools in the nation have weapon carry policies in place. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ywq8b5/teachers-armed-guns-classroom-state...
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Re: Good Guys Without Guns
Reply #34 - 08/20/19 at 13:42:15

Eegore wrote on 08/20/19 at 13:34:35:

"Not one single teacher I know is or wants to. What's your source on information?"

Multiple schools in the nation have weapon carry policies in place.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ywq8b5/teachers-armed-guns-classroom-state...

Yes, they're allowed to carry. But they're not all trained. In the case of Florida, they're going to spend $67 million. That, to me, is crazy.

Further, what about the liability? Is it on the teacher? Could a litigious victim's family sue the school?

No, not a good idea. Better policing is what's needed.

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Re: Good Guys Without Guns
Reply #35 - 08/20/19 at 13:48:09

I was only answering this statement:

"Not one single teacher I know is or wants to"

Multiple teachers in multiple states want and will carry.

"Further, what about the liability? Is it on the teacher? Could a litigious victim's family sue the school?"

Every participating program will have its own agreements as to what and where liability exists and with whom. An armed teacher agreement is really no different than an armed security staff agreement and thousands of those exist and are in use every day.

Typically negligence is the responsibility of the person carrying. Typically accidents are absorbed through insurance and compensation. Typically families sue anyway.

There is not a lot of legal precedence to go off of at this time.

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Re: Good Guys Without Guns
Reply #36 - 08/20/19 at 13:52:09

Eegore wrote on 08/20/19 at 13:48:09:

I was only answering this statement:

"Not one single teacher I know is or wants to"

Multiple teachers in multiple states want and will carry.

"Further, what about the liability? Is it on the teacher? Could a litigious victim's family sue the school?"

Every participating program will have its own agreements as to what and where liability exists and with whom. An armed teacher agreement is really no different than an armed security staff agreement and thousands of those exist and are in use every day.

Typically negligence is the responsibility of the person carrying. Typically accidents are absorbed through insurance and compensation. Typically families sue anyway.

There is not a lot of legal precedence to go off of at this time.

So, all in all, it's a great idea!!! <<<<<sarcasm

It's sad that this is where we're at today in our school system. Yes, I know, there were "duck and cover" drills in the 50's and 60's, but this... Active shooter drills, arming teachers, triage training. It's just sad.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Good Guys Without Guns Reply #37 - 08/21/19 at 04:20:23 Crazies have always been. Not being prepared is sad. Want fewer crazies? Knock off the panzy approach to raising kids. Counseling is fine, for some. Others need a paddle and sometimes even that won't change them.
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Re: Good Guys Without Guns
Reply #38 - 08/21/19 at 05:10:23

So, all in all, it's a great idea!!!

It's one idea, it's not THE idea, just one. Nothing wrong with trying it. Let the schools decide. Only problem is most school upper administrators are wussy libs. Remember, the Parkland school shooter should have been treated far differently than he was. He was trouble for years. How many times did police go to his house? And you want to rely on these people for everything? No thanks.

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Re: Good Guys Without Guns
Reply #39 - 08/22/19 at 07:10:44

Yet another example:

Man with arsenal allegedly threatened hotel mass shooting

LONG BEACH, Calif. (AP) A cook at a Los Angeles-area hotel was arrested after he allegedly threatened a mass shooting and stockpiled guns and hundreds of rounds of ammunition at his home, police said Wednesday.

Rodolfo Montoya, 37, was taken into custody Tuesday at his Huntington Beach home, police said.

Montoya was upset over a work-related human resources issue when he told a co-worker at the Long Beach Marriott on Monday that "he was going to shoot up fellow employees and people coming into the hotel," Police Chief Robert Luna said.

The employee told the hotel's general manager, who contacted police.

A search of Montoya's Huntington Beach home turned up assault-style rifles and other weapons, dozens of high-capacity magazines and hundreds of bullets, police said.

Montoya "had clear plans, intent and the means to carry out an act of violence that may have resulted in a mass casualty incident," Luna said.

At the news conference, Luna thanked Imran Ahmed, the hotel's general manager, for calling authorities.

"Sir, you saved many lives, not only of your employees but any customers that may have been at the Marriott when this guy decided to show up and carry out his threat," Luna said.

The chief said Montoya didn't appear to have any criminal history that would have prevented him from legally buying guns, although some of the weapons and high-capacity magazines at his home may be illegal.

Montoya was held on suspicion of making, possessing and distributing assault weapons and making criminal threats. He was held on $500,000 bail. It wasn't immediately clear whether he has an attorney.

All those lives saved.... with no guns needed.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Good Guys Without Guns Reply #40 - 08/23/19 at 04:46:06 Gee, too bad not every homicidal maniac gets caught before he starts shooting. BUT IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT.. Yeah, more guns is what we need. More average folks Carrying
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Eegore Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 8403	Re: Good Guys Without Guns Reply #41 - 08/23/19 at 05:22:20 It's not like anyone is saying get rid of all guns and go with a report to police only option. Also nobody is saying arm everyone and forget about reporting.
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Re: Good Guys Without Guns
Reply #42 - 08/23/19 at 08:28:56

Eegore wrote on 08/23/19 at 05:22:20:

It's not like anyone is saying get rid of all guns and go with a report to police only option.

Also nobody is saying arm everyone and forget about reporting.

Of those two, I've heard the first mentioned by people referred to as somewhat in the mainstream of the left. On the other side, I can't say I've ever heard anyone considered in the mainstream of the right say that. Maybe I'm wrong. Sure someone will look that up.......

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Re: Good Guys Without Guns
Reply #43 - 08/23/19 at 11:10:05

Eegore wrote on 08/23/19 at 05:22:20:

It's not like anyone is saying get rid of all guns and go with a report to police only option.

Also nobody is saying arm everyone and forget about reporting.

Agreed. However, the right-wing seems to think that any - and I mean any restrictions will immediately lead to banning all guns.

It's just not true. It's a scare tactic used by the NRA to stir the base.

Forget about the nearly 400 million guns out there right now that no one can our should touch. A voluntary donation could be set up to get rid of the assault weapons. Voluntary

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