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Why don't you get it? (Read 341 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Why don't you get it?
07/14/19 at 00:17:22
 
The unborn American has no constitutional rights or protections,
Because they are not born or naturalized into the country.
People who have entered illegally are not born or naturalized into the country, yet the same people who are happy to see the unborn killed are demanding the illegal aliens be treated as if
They are citizens...

Do you even know what Roe v. Wade said?
There is no
Constitutional RIGHT to an abortion.
There are no constitutional rights for the unborn, that's all.
But lefties seem to believe that people who are here illegally are due the same considerations as citizens.
That's completely without reason.
Who breaks into your house and gets adopted into your family?

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Eegore
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Re: Why don't you get it?
Reply #1 - 07/14/19 at 00:43:15
 
 Not all people who are pro-choice are pro-illegal immigration.

 All humans in the US are protected under the Constitution.  Unborn humans are not.

 I imagine there are a multitude of reasons why certain rights could be extended to illegal immigrants in certain situations but funding large open groups is not a good idea.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Why don't you get it?
Reply #2 - 07/14/19 at 05:10:06
 
All humans in the US are protected under the Constitution.  Unborn humans are not.

I don't believe that's true. All humans in the US have varying forms of protection under the Constitution, not all have the same. An illegal immigrant can't legally vote for example. (not yet anyway)

An unborn child in which the mother declares the child is wanted and has value has certain rights. A robber who hits a pregnant woman and kills her unborn baby but not the mother, can be charged with murder, not just assault. However, another woman who decides she does not want an unborn baby conceived on the same day as the one murdered by the robber, can legally abort (kill, murder, semantics at this point) that human.

In one case, the human has the right to justice for it's murder but not in the other case. It's all because one mother declare the child has value as a human  but not in the other.
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Eegore
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Re: Why don't you get it?
Reply #3 - 07/14/19 at 05:15:25
 
"I don't believe that's true. All humans in the US have varying forms of protection under the Constitution, not all have the same."

 This is true, I didn't clarify.

"It's all because one mother declare the child has value as a human  but not in the other."

 Yes, since the mother has been born she has a choice, for now anyway.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Why don't you get it?
Reply #4 - 07/14/19 at 05:59:47
 
A choice to do what exactly?
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Why don't you get it?
Reply #5 - 07/14/19 at 07:25:27
 
All humans in the US are protected under the Constitution.  Unborn humans are not.

No, they are not.
They , under the very same clause that SCOTUS used to deny rights to the Unborn, are NOT included in the rights and protections, because
They were neither
Born
Nor
NATURALIZED
Into the country.

You don't get to decide because it's how you feel. Read the constitution.
Understand the way SCOTUS used its language to DENY the rights and protections of the constitution to the unborn, Natural citizens, and then explain, don't just say it's true, explain Why illegal aliens, people who are the legal equivalent of an intruder in your house, somehow is due the legal rights and protections American citizens have.

I have explained why they don't.

Back to you...
All of
"You"
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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thumperclone
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Re: Why don't you get it?
Reply #6 - 07/14/19 at 07:35:45
 
a tourist visiting the U.S.
has the same rights as you and I
AND
must abide by our laws
UNLESS
they have diplomatic immunity
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Re: Why don't you get it?
Reply #7 - 07/14/19 at 09:21:40
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/14/19 at 00:17:22:
Do you even know what Roe v. Wade said?
There is no
Constitutional RIGHT to an abortion.
There are no constitutional rights for the unborn, that's all.


Quote:
On Jan. 22, 1973, the Supreme Court handed down the watershed ruling that a woman's right to make her own medical decisions, including the choice to have an abortion, is protected under the 14th Amendment.


I would say that this is a Constitutional right to an abortion.
SCOTUS basically ruled that an abortion is a legitimate medical procedure.
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Eegore
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Re: Why don't you get it?
Reply #8 - 07/14/19 at 11:40:16
 
"A choice to do what exactly?"

 Have a legal abortion in a clinical environment.  You already know this, did you want to have a semantics conversation about it?
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Why don't you get it?
Reply #9 - 07/14/19 at 11:50:04
 
Thank You for making My Point.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv
SECTION 1.SECTION 2.SECTION 3.SECTION 4.SECTION 5.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside....

Read it.

There IS no constitutional RIGHT to abortion.
The UNBORN,
BECAUSE they Are Not Yet BORN
Or NATURALIZED
are NOT protected By the Constitution.

Yet, you lefties want to pretend that the Illegal Aliens, NOT born IN AMERICA
Nor NATURALIZED into the country
Have constitutional rights.
You don't understand how things actually work.
You FEEL whatever, but truth is
They have No rights.
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Eegore
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Re: Why don't you get it?
Reply #10 - 07/14/19 at 11:57:34
 
You don't get to decide because it's how you feel. Read the constitution.

 I read case law and how the US Constitution is applied to actual situations, not internet articles.  I'd reference 20 or 30 cases easily but historically nobody here reads them, and you specifically disregard any data you don't "care" about.

 First you are obviously mixing foreign policy with US Judicial law so the application of the US Constitution is not even the same.

 The Constitution does not have written into all of it that the rights are specific to citizens, some portions do, some don't.

 Illegal immigrants get the right to a speedy trial.  They have the right to legal representation (contrary to popular belief this is not paid for by US tax dollars)  They do not get to vote.  Even at that you are talking Administrative law, not Judicial/Criminal or Civil.  Administrative Court has typically been ruled immune to review by judicial standards.

 After Sept 11 2001 this was addressed constantly, look up why SAMs were started, look up why certain foreign nationals were sent to Cuba and not the US.  Very specifically to ease burden of legal interpretation regarding their Constitutional rights.


 Here's some easy ones people might read:

https://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/facpub/297/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2017/01/30/does-the-constitution-pr...

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WebsterMark
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Re: Why don't you get it?
Reply #11 - 07/14/19 at 11:58:01
 
Eegore wrote on 07/14/19 at 11:40:16:
"A choice to do what exactly?"

 Have a legal abortion in a clinical environment.  You already know this, did you want to have a semantics conversation about it?


Another way to say that would be to say a choice to end another human life.
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Re: Why don't you get it?
Reply #12 - 07/14/19 at 11:59:29
 
thumperclone wrote on 07/14/19 at 07:35:45:
a tourist visiting the U.S.
has the same rights as you and I
AND
must abide by our laws
UNLESS
they have diplomatic immunity


So me as an alien to the US can rock up and vote? Wow how generous.
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Re: Why don't you get it?
Reply #13 - 07/14/19 at 12:10:38
 

"Another way to say that would be to say a choice to end another human life."

 Another way to say it is that it's not a human life until it reaches a full-term birth.  Want to have a semantics conversation again?  Theres like five threads here going over this in circles over and over.

 Abortion is legal.  Self-defense is legal.  Capital punishment is legal.  All of those end another human life.  Still legal.
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Re: Why don't you get it?
Reply #14 - 07/14/19 at 12:39:53
 
By determining that abortion is private medical matter, the SCOTUS is taking the position that a fetus is not a person and does not get legal protection, up to the point that it becomes viable.

History and religion has generally said a fetus becomes a person at the "quickening".  This is approximately when it can be felt to kick externally and is basically viable if born at that time.

Arguing that the 14th amendment does not protect abortion is like saying it doesn't protect ear piercing.  
It protects women's right's to determine what is done to their bodies.
It is a private matter.

What you want, is to give a fetus full personhood at inception.
SCOTUS says not until the "quickening".
So there's your beef,.. not the 14th amendment.

When is an egg a chicken?...


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