SuzukiSavage.com - Suzuki Patents New Counter-Balanced Single

Tocsik Serious Thumper Offline the singularity Posts: 1140 Denver, CO Gender:	Suzuki Patents New Counter-Balanced Single 04/29/19 at 14:48:13 Interesting read. https://www.rideapart.com/articles/346820/suzuki-engine-motocross-patent-design/
Back to top	suzuki-single-patent-1.jpg '08\|Raptor\|Dyna\|Stock jets & no other carb changes @ 5280' alt\|'slavy CCT\|Kawa front pulley\|130/90 rear tire\|7" LED headlight\|3" straight risers\|FIAMM El Grande horns\|Mutazu hard bags IP Logged

ohiomoto Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 2684 WTF is JOG?	Re: Suzuki Patents New Counter-Balanced Single Reply #1 - 04/30/19 at 06:15:47 It is. Thanks for sharing.
Back to top	IP Logged

Gary_in_NJ Serious Thumper Offline LS650 Cafe Racer Posts: 2625 Amongst the Twisty Roads	Re: Suzuki Patents New Counter-Balanced Single Reply #2 - 04/30/19 at 06:41:12 I don't like it. The extra lever on the crank creates unnecessary drag resulting in pumping losses. There are better solutions currently in use.
Back to top	A life-time student of motorcycling. LS650 Cafe, DRZ400SM, FZ6N, SV650S, CB900C, Ducati ST2, CB550F-SS My LS650=> http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Left.JPG IP Logged

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Suzuki Patents New Counter-Balanced Single Reply #3 - 04/30/19 at 09:14:47 Gary_in_NJ wrote on 04/30/19 at 06:41:12: I don't like it. The extra lever on the crank creates unnecessary drag resulting in pumping losses. There are better solutions currently in use. I don't know enough to understand what you are talking about. Or which designs are better.
Back to top	The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke. IP Logged

Gary_in_NJ

Serious Thumper

Offline

LS650 Cafe Racer

Posts: 2625
Amongst the Twisty Roads

Re: Suzuki Patents New Counter-Balanced Single
Reply #4 - 04/30/19 at 09:44:52

The design uses a single crank pin (a la Harley Davidson) to create a motion that is 90 degrees from the connecting rod. The force is terminated at the forward pivot point. It acts as if it were a 90 degree V-Twin. But unlike a twin, it has all of the same system drag, without the benefit of a power stroke. It's a wasted energy system.

Therefore I don't like it.

Back to top

A life-time student of motorcycling.
LS650 Cafe, DRZ400SM, FZ6N, SV650S, CB900C, Ducati ST2, CB550F-SS
My LS650=> http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Left.JPG

IP Logged

Ruttly Serious Thumper Offline Thumpers Rule Posts: 4997 Manteca , CA Gender:	Re: Suzuki Patents New Counter-Balanced Single Reply #5 - 04/30/19 at 17:28:50 I would like to watch one blow up from let's say lack of oil. How cool would that be ! I agree , a real bad design.
Back to top	The Topic Terminator IP Logged

Ruttly Serious Thumper Offline Thumpers Rule Posts: 4997 Manteca , CA Gender:	Re: Suzuki Patents New Counter-Balanced Single Reply #6 - 04/30/19 at 22:37:00 We wouldn't need counterbalances if we didn't keep making the pistons bigger & bigger & bigger
Back to top	The Topic Terminator IP Logged

Ruttly Serious Thumper Offline Thumpers Rule Posts: 4997 Manteca , CA Gender:	Re: Suzuki Patents New Counter-Balanced Single Reply #7 - 04/30/19 at 22:42:06 Yeah I can see Suzuki using that for a Savage
Back to top	The Topic Terminator IP Logged

Dave

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 17810
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male

Re: Suzuki Patents New Counter-Balanced Single
Reply #8 - 05/01/19 at 03:51:52

Gary_in_NJ wrote on 04/30/19 at 06:41:12:

I don't like it. The extra lever on the crank creates unnecessary drag resulting in pumping losses. There are better solutions currently in use.

Is this better/worse than a counterbalance shaft? The rotating mass slows down acceleration/deceleration of the rotating mass.....the eccentric lever slows down the acceleration/deceleration in a linear mass.

BMW use a similar system in their parallels twin - and I think Honda does the same.

Back to top

Someday I will be old......But not today!

IP Logged

Gary_in_NJ Serious Thumper Offline LS650 Cafe Racer Posts: 2625 Amongst the Twisty Roads	Re: Suzuki Patents New Counter-Balanced Single Reply #9 - 05/01/19 at 06:12:55 IMO, rotational harmonic balancers are more efficient because of inertia. However they do add mass to the valve train. They are certainly more compact.
Back to top	A life-time student of motorcycling. LS650 Cafe, DRZ400SM, FZ6N, SV650S, CB900C, Ducati ST2, CB550F-SS My LS650=> http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Left.JPG IP Logged

Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 17810 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Suzuki Patents New Counter-Balanced Single Reply #10 - 05/01/19 at 06:48:10 The balance shaft in the Savage looks to weigh about 10 pounds...and rotates at twice the crankshaft speed! Here is an article on what BMW is using. https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/power-parallel-twin-engine-motorcycles-eng...
Back to top	Someday I will be old......But not today! IP Logged

Gary_in_NJ

Serious Thumper

Offline

LS650 Cafe Racer

Posts: 2625
Amongst the Twisty Roads

Re: Suzuki Patents New Counter-Balanced Single
Reply #11 - 05/01/19 at 14:19:18

Right, the disadvantage of a rotating counter weight is that it slows rpm acceleration, and causes the engine to hold on to rpms while decelerating. But at a steady rpm, there is little parasitic loss.

The pumping loss of the moving counter weight is always a drag on the engine, and it takes a lot more space to implement.

There's no free lunch with either system, and I'm sure the big OEM's have evaluated the benefits and penaltys of both approaches...but my monkey brain interprets the system in the Suzuki patent as being less efficient, even though that may not be true.

Back to top

A life-time student of motorcycling.
LS650 Cafe, DRZ400SM, FZ6N, SV650S, CB900C, Ducati ST2, CB550F-SS
My LS650=> http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Left.JPG

IP Logged

Ruttly Serious Thumper Offline Thumpers Rule Posts: 4997 Manteca , CA Gender:	Re: Suzuki Patents New Counter-Balanced Single Reply #12 - 05/01/19 at 16:47:33 I have always wondered what a 695cc thumper would be like with the counter balancer removed. Maybe I'll try it some day just for fun.
Back to top	The Topic Terminator IP Logged

Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 17810 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Suzuki Patents New Counter-Balanced Single Reply #13 - 05/01/19 at 18:29:22 Ruttly wrote on 05/01/19 at 16:47:33: I have always wondered what a 695cc thumper would be like with the counter balancer removed. Maybe I'll try it some day just for fun. Fff...fffuuu.....fffuuuu.......fffffuuuuu.......fffffffuuuuunnnnnnnnnnn!
Back to top	Someday I will be old......But not today! IP Logged

zipidachimp Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1387 surrey, b.c. Gender:	Re: Suzuki Patents New Counter-Balanced Single Reply #14 - 05/02/19 at 01:38:07 didn't Ducati do something similar 20 years ago with a 500 mono? https://raresportbikesforsale.com/1994-ducati-supermono-34-for-sale/supermono-34 /
Back to top	IP Logged