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WebsterMark

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Re: Zionism
Reply #15 - 04/24/19 at 07:49:49

Eegore wrote on 04/24/19 at 06:54:18:

I think this is a valid question.

The average American is aware we "support" Israel, but are not clear about why.

Dodge the question all you want, but I do feel it is a valid question.

My understanding is we support Israel for the logistics and historical alliance. The repercussions of abandoning Israel economically and militarily would result in the end of Israel, and that is a huge PR nightmare for the US.

It's a totally valid question, but there is nothing but deceit in TT's assertion that he wants to understand. He doesn't. He's perfectly aware of what his opinions are on the topic and he only posted this as a way to get Ray or somebody to engage which will inevitable end up with TT referring to Ray or any other Christian as some stupid, backward, knuckle dragging dredge of society.

You can be so naïve as to think he was being serious are you?

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Re: Zionism
Reply #16 - 04/24/19 at 09:02:05

T And T Garage wrote on 04/23/19 at 11:00:33:

I'm honestly asking a question.
What makes Israel so important to the US?
Why is that so tough to answer?

To your question;
“Why should we Americans care so much about Israel?"
The answer, ‘Don’t believe Americans care any more or less, about Israel, than they do, Brazil, UK, Denmark, Australia, Canada, etc, etc, etc, etc,.

Now answer this question.
If I said these things, especially in a public Form,
About a different Country, Race, or Religion,
do you think the UL, FDS’s would call me, ‘Racist’ ?

“… “It’s all about the Benjamins baby,”…”
(Suggesting Israel pays for support)
“…the political influence in this country that says it is OK for people to push for allegiance to a foreign country…”
(suggesting political support for Israel is wrong)
“… "Israel has hypnotized the world. May Allah awaken the people and help them see the evil doings of Israel.”…”
(That one speaks for it’s self !)

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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Re: Zionism
Reply #17 - 04/24/19 at 09:31:04

WebsterMark wrote on 04/24/19 at 07:49:49:

Eegore wrote on 04/24/19 at 06:54:18:

I think this is a valid question.

The average American is aware we "support" Israel, but are not clear about why.

Dodge the question all you want, but I do feel it is a valid question.

My understanding is we support Israel for the logistics and historical alliance. The repercussions of abandoning Israel economically and militarily would result in the end of Israel, and that is a huge PR nightmare for the US.

It's a totally valid question, but there is nothing but deceit in TT's assertion that he wants to understand. He doesn't. He's perfectly aware of what his opinions are on the topic and he only posted this as a way to get Ray or somebody to engage which will inevitable end up with TT referring to Ray or any other Christian as some stupid, backward, knuckle dragging dredge of society.

You can be so naïve as to think he was being serious are you?

Well mark, I asked the question. If you have a valid argument, then post it.

You assume far too much once again.

Here I am, opening up a debate, and you shoot it down. How is that productive?

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Re: Zionism
Reply #18 - 04/24/19 at 09:34:53

MnSpring wrote on 04/24/19 at 09:02:05:

T And T Garage wrote on 04/23/19 at 11:00:33:

I'm honestly asking a question.
What makes Israel so important to the US?
Why is that so tough to answer?

To your question;
“Why should we Americans care so much about Israel?"
The answer, ‘Don’t believe Americans care any more or less, about Israel, than they do, Brazil, UK, Denmark, Australia, Canada, etc, etc, etc, etc,.

That might be a fair point, but our relationship in the Middle East says otherwise. Look at the uproar recently with Omar.

Now answer this question.
If I said these things, especially in a public Form,
About a different Country, Race, or Religion,
do you think the UL, FDS’s would call me, ‘Racist’ ?

“… “It’s all about the Benjamins baby,”…”
(Suggesting Israel pays for support)
“…the political influence in this country that says it is OK for people to push for allegiance to a foreign country…”
(suggesting political support for Israel is wrong)
“… "Israel has hypnotized the world. May Allah awaken the people and help them see the evil doings of Israel.”…”
(That one speaks for it’s self !)

Well, once again mn - it's all about context. Your question is lacking and 100% out of context. And, once again, you're getting off topic.

My question is - why is the US so attached to Israel? What makes them so special?

Is it just about the Rapture? If it is - doesn't that give you pause?

If it isn't, then what is it?

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MnSpring Serious Thumper Offline Younger than most people my age. Posts: 9395 Minn Gender:	Re: Zionism Reply #19 - 04/24/19 at 09:53:22 T And T Garage wrote on 04/24/19 at 09:34:53: My question is - why is the US so attached to Israel? What makes them so special? Excellent job, of moving the Goalposts, again !
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Re: Zionism
Reply #20 - 04/24/19 at 10:03:16

MnSpring wrote on 04/24/19 at 09:53:22:

T And T Garage wrote on 04/24/19 at 09:34:53:

My question is - why is the US so attached to Israel? What makes them so special?

Excellent job, of moving the Goalposts, again !

Grin

mn -do you even know what that phrase means? I don't think so.

Let me remind you what my original post was.

Why should we Americans care so much about Israel?

bebe is going to name a town after trump in the Golan Heights.

Seriously? Why?

Is it only about the Bible? Is it only about the Rapture?

The goalposts are in the same spot - to continue the metaphor.

The only real response has been from Eegore.

Now - if you have something to add - great.

If not. Well...

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Eegore Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 8403	Re: Zionism Reply #21 - 04/24/19 at 14:03:57 "You can be so naïve as to think he was being serious are you?" I don't care what his motive is. I feel that, for me, it is a valid question. Many people that I know could not tell you how Israel even started, let alone what our foreign policy is. People know the US supports Israel, but do not know why.
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pg Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 5273 In Transit	Re: Zionism Reply #22 - 04/24/19 at 18:41:53 I will put a toe in that water. The concept of Zionism was started with Theodor Herzl and the Judenstaat. Most people acknowledge the Balfour Declaration as the first international recognition of the movement. Best regards,
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Re: Zionism
Reply #23 - 04/25/19 at 05:50:10

pg wrote on 04/24/19 at 18:41:53:

I will put a toe in that water. The concept of Zionism was started with Theodor Herzl and the Judenstaat. Most people acknowledge the Balfour Declaration as the first international recognition of the movement.

Best regards,

But that doesn't answer the question as to why does the US have such an interest.

Is it all religious? Is it something else?

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Re: Zionism
Reply #24 - 04/25/19 at 08:46:22

I would say it's not exclusively religious.

Look at the short-lived backlash and concerns when Trump asked why the US is in the UN. That's an economic and military concern. Israel is in a similar boat, if we tell them they are on their own, the US loses a ton of credibility, which will have economic impact, and it won' matter what religion anyone is.

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Re: Zionism
Reply #25 - 04/25/19 at 09:56:21

Eegore wrote on 04/25/19 at 08:46:22:

I would say it's not exclusively religious.

Look at the short-lived backlash and concerns when Trump asked why the US is in the UN. That's an economic and military concern. Israel is in a similar boat, if we tell them they are on their own, the US loses a ton of credibility, which will have economic impact, and it won' matter what religion anyone is.

I see. That makes sense in one respect.

But I still don't really see "what's in it for us?"

I'm not saying abandon them by any means - but when a representative in the House gets called out for questioning her loyalty to Israel - that doesn't make sense to me.

Looking through with capitalistic glasses on - they really don't have anything to offer us - do they? No oil, no ores, no real exports.

It seems to be 100% political. Well, maybe 60% political and 40% religious.

Are our leaders really that bent on making sure there's an Israel state so that when Jesus comes back, he comes back to the right place? Is that part of it??

And if it is - huh??......

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Re: Zionism
Reply #26 - 04/25/19 at 11:28:24

I also don't understand why Is real is such a huge deal.
I know about the Balfor agreement, but forgot most of it. I well know about the attack on the USS Liberty.
I don't understand why our foreign policy is so often something that looks like Israel designed it. I'm not sure I even know the difference between Zionism and whatever else they believe. Apparently I am ignorant about some things that others have investigated.

Look it up
Zi·on·ism
[ˈzīəˌnizəm]
NOUN
a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann.

Sounds benign enough...
But,,

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Re: Zionism
Reply #27 - 04/25/19 at 15:27:06

The main reason is it is important to Europe, both the nations that tried to exterminate Jews (eg Germany, occupied Poland, Occupied France, Russia when not killing Georgans etc). It became clear to them that the US (the Winner of WWII) wanted a safe place for all the unwanted but still living Jews to go to, and nobody cared about Arabs since the Arab leadership was willing to do whatever to keep British petroleum happy and money producing.

As in most things, follow the money.
Does it matter to the US now - to the Large and influencial NY City Jewish population pretty much a yes , but not even universally there. To the Religious Right - yeah, after all if the rapture is coming, you will contribute even more.
As in most things follow the money. Grin

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Re: Zionism
Reply #28 - 04/25/19 at 15:36:40

Trippah wrote on 04/25/19 at 15:27:06:

The main reason is it is important to Europe, both the nations that tried to exterminate Jews (eg Germany, occupied Poland, Occupied France, Russia when not killing Georgans etc). It became clear to them that the US (the Winner of WWII) wanted a safe place for all the unwanted but still living Jews to go to, and nobody cared about Arabs since the Arab leadership was willing to do whatever to keep British petroleum happy and money producing.

As in most things, follow the money.
Does it matter to the US now - to the Large and influencial NY City Jewish population pretty much a yes , but not even universally there. To the Religious Right - yeah, after all if the rapture is coming, you will contribute even more.
As in most things follow the money. Grin

Thanks Trippah - keen insight!

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Re: Zionism
Reply #29 - 04/25/19 at 18:27:46

I agree with much of Trippah's post and I will add a bit of commentary. I believe the support they get is overwhelmingly political and the vast majority of people who may support them based on religion aren't policy makers.

Also why does everyone believe the US won WW2? I content the US won the pacific theatre and Russians won in Europe.

Best regards,

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