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Cylinder Head Porting & Flow Test (Read 1121 times)
batman
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Re: Cylinder Head Porting & Flow Test
Reply #30 - 04/05/19 at 09:09:59
 
ohiomoto wrote on 04/05/19 at 07:50:11:
I'm not arguing with your results, but could there possibly be a reason for those dipsey-dos??  

Could those actually be a feature the enginers put in for some sort of scavaging or back pressure effect??  

I'm thinking along the lines of "if it were all about airflow then you could argue that we shouldn't run pipes at all".   I believe Suzuki's engineers are probably a pretty smart group and either put those there for a reason or were mad as hell they had to leave them there at all.


Ohio,  I think any back pressure effect that early in the exhaust path would have only a negative effect . Scavenging occurs when the pressure wave (moving at a speed of nearly Mach 1) returns from the end of the header pipe where it has expanded,  to find the exhaust valve before it closes and the intake valve slightly open , the DD's are much to close . The stock cam (and any derived from it -stage 3)   has negative overlap which means there's no chance of scavenging in any case, which keeps emissions low on a bike equipped with a carb rather than FI. The bad exhaust channel in the head keeps hp down a  factor that seemed right for an entry level bike.
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Re: Cylinder Head Porting & Flow Test
Reply #31 - 04/05/19 at 10:39:59
 
ohiomoto wrote on 04/05/19 at 07:50:11:
I'm thinking along the lines of "if it were all about airflow then you could argue that we shouldn't run pipes at all".   I believe Suzuki's engineers are probably a pretty smart group and either put those there for a reason or were mad as hell they had to leave them there at all.


The engineers are a smart group. The problem is the intended market audience for these bikes, and that the engineers are not at the top of the decision making chain. Someone above them said "Hey, can you keep the cost of production really low so we can sell them cheap and still make a profit?" and we are stuck with their design. The valve spring location kind of mandates that last part of the dipsy with the current design. To correct the port shape would require the head to be taller so that the port could be moved enough to eliminate the dipsydoodles. And a taller head would require frame changes and other engine changes (longer cam chain, different rockers, etc) that would increase the cost. We ended up with the best that they could offer under the circumstances.

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Re: Cylinder Head Porting & Flow Test
Reply #32 - 04/06/19 at 06:38:49
 
Thanks for all your hard work and incredible documentation!
-Armen
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Re: Cylinder Head Porting & Flow Test
Reply #33 - 04/06/19 at 16:55:28
 
Yes thanks again Mike !  Always informative !
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Re: Cylinder Head Porting & Flow Test
Reply #34 - 04/06/19 at 22:28:10
 
The kudos need to go to Fast650.  Filling the Dipsy-Doodle on the exhaust and raising the intake floor with epoxy were Fast650's ideas.  He sent me links on the intake epoxy trick and directly suggested the DD fill.  Plus, he donated the HammerHead.  F-65-0 should get the credit here.

Regarding the additional work on the exhaust port, it's already around 83% flow bias.  It was way easier souping up the exhaust than souping up the intake.  My limited understanding is that we really want around 70 to 80% flow bias for a naturally aspirated engine.  If we were running boost, then we might want more than 80%.

When I get setup for exhaust testing again, I will try to do a proper test on DD-2 using clay, just to see what happens.  But I am also a bit skeptical about coming up with a filler that can hold up.  The first Dipsey-Doodle is in a fairly tight notch.  We have a much better chance of anchoring the filler in that notch.  The second Dipsey-Doodle looks a lot more challenging in terms of anchoring the filler material..

My filler material test specimens are all cured and ready to be tortured. Let's see how that shakes out.

Regarding Suzuki engineers incorporating the DD for backpressure: the incredibly small 1.27" ID head pipe gives this system all the backpressure any engineer could ever dream of.  If you fiddle around with any of the readilay available formulas for header pipe ID, you will find that this particular setup is most likely intentionally designed for a tractor-pull engine.  The teeny-weeny head pipe, zero-overlap cam, undersize carburetor, single-cylinder large-displacement engine, 5+ pound flywheel, all combine for the perfect entry-level motorcycle.  Light-weight, loads of low end torque, exilerating (at-first) but not very intimidating acceleration.  I think they got exactly what they were looking for.  

Our job is to make it intimidating.  Cool
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Re: Cylinder Head Porting & Flow Test
Reply #35 - 04/06/19 at 22:58:02
 
One additional comment, I am surprised there hasn't been any discussion regarding "raising the floor of the intake with epoxy".  It kind of seemed illogical to me.  Reduce the cross section to increase flow?  IMO, this isn't some sort of velocity trick.  It seems more likely that the improved short side radius really does the trick.  Also, I found that if you don't do it just right it will choke off the flow.  I think that pitfall could be avoided by simply testing the port with a vacuum cleaner and manometer.  Take a baseline reading before starting and then make sure your finished port pulls significantly less vacuum when you are done.  Very easy to do and requires almost zero cash outlay.
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Re: Cylinder Head Porting & Flow Test
Reply #36 - 04/07/19 at 08:14:26
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 04/06/19 at 22:28:10:
The kudos need to go to Fast650.  Filling the Dipsy-Doodle on the exhaust and raising the intake floor with epoxy were Fast650's ideas.  He sent me links on the intake epoxy trick and directly suggested the DD fill.  Plus, he donated the HammerHead.  F-65-0 should get the credit here.


Now we just need a cam with a bit of overlap and a piston that is tall enough to correct the deck height but with enough of a dish to keep the compression ratio reasonable. Smiley

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Re: Cylinder Head Porting & Flow Test
Reply #37 - 04/07/19 at 12:11:49
 
Fast650    thank you also!!!      I really have no idea , but what about removing the dome from a DR piston, I don't know if it would retain it's strength? due to the wrist pin location the piston ,  it sits higher in the cylinder at TDC ,which would raise compression.( don't know how much ( 9-9.5?)  
       the DR cam does have 6 degrees of overlap @ .050
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Re: Cylinder Head Porting & Flow Test
Reply #38 - 04/07/19 at 23:30:12
 
You are close to what I was thinking. What I meant would require a new casting to be custom made. Easiest way to visualize it would be to imagine a stock LS piston, then imagine a 1/8" thick ring about 1/2" wide that sits on top of the piston. That would remedy the deck height problem, give it a quench area, and the dish would be enough to keep the CR down enough to not be detonation prone..

As for the valve overlap, a little more overlap would allow for better scavenging from pipe tuning. The current overlap isn't enough for it to have much of an effect.
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Re: Cylinder Head Porting & Flow Test
Reply #39 - 05/05/19 at 17:50:12
 
I am wanting to open the exhaust up to a 1.5" but I am not clear on just what material  you are removing? Do you use the existing header bolt on piece and just open it up a bit or is there a different way of mounting the larger header onto the head?
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Re: Cylinder Head Porting & Flow Test
Reply #40 - 05/06/19 at 15:23:43
 
ohiomoto wrote on 04/05/19 at 07:50:11:
I'm thinking along the lines of "if it were all about airflow then you could argue that we shouldn't run pipes at all".   I believe Suzuki's engineers are probably a pretty smart group and either put those there for a reason or were mad as hell they had to leave them there at all.


No pipe at all means 14.7 PSIA acting directly on the exhaust valve.  Not good...  At low engine speeds the ambient pressure would push spent exhaust gas right back into the combustion chamber.  This not only dilutes the fresh incoming intake charge but also kills VE by reducing cylinder pressure.  The result is a big lack of power due to crappy efficiency.

A properly-tuned exhaust system can actually create positive pressure (a sort of super-charging) and increase VE and cylinder pressure over small operating ranges.  A good reverse-cone megaphone system can achieve such an effect, as can a properly-tuned intake runner.  ALL modern auto and boat engines have tuned intakes today...

Good read here:  http://victorylibrary.com/brit/mega-c.htm

And here:  https://www.allpar.com/racing/ramchargers.html
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Re: Cylinder Head Porting & Flow Test
Reply #41 - 05/06/19 at 23:21:37
 
Iceman, it's a bit unclear to me what exactly you are asking.  Are you interested in how to determine where to removal material from the cylinder head exhaust port?  If so, then I hope this helps.

I purchased a large nylon washer and cut the outside diameter to fit snug in the exhaust socket.  Then I cut the inside diameter of the washer to 1.5".  I used the washer as a template for enlarging the port opening from 1.3" to 1.5".  The template serves as a guide so that your finished opening is centralized.  I suggest that you not remove material from the bottom of the port.  It should remain flat.  You end up with an opening that is sort of like a capital "D" laying on it's side.

Here is a shot of the template.
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Re: Cylinder Head Porting & Flow Test
Reply #42 - 05/06/19 at 23:28:55
 
Use a scribe and trace an outline of the enlarged opening onto the head, then carefully grind and blend until you reach the scribe line, except for the bottom of the port, that should be flat.  It should look like this when you are finished.  Note the arced scribe line along the bottom of the port.  I didn't grind along the bottom so you can still see the scribe line.
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Re: Cylinder Head Porting & Flow Test
Reply #43 - 05/06/19 at 23:30:36
 
Don't fire up your die grinder unless you are sure what you are trying to achieve.  If in doubt, ask for more help.
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Re: Cylinder Head Porting & Flow Test
Reply #44 - 05/10/19 at 18:31:01
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 05/06/19 at 23:30:36:
Don't fire up your die grinder unless you are sure what you are trying to achieve.  If in doubt, ask for more help.


I ah see it now. I am trying to decide between a 95 or a 96mm wiseco piston right now and I am assuming opening up the exhaust a bit to allow for better flow for larger displacement would be good. Any ideas on teh 95 vs the 96?
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