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Trump threatens to close the border... (Read 234 times)
MnSpring
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Re: Trump threatens to close the border...
Reply #15 - 03/31/19 at 11:42:06
 
pg wrote on 03/31/19 at 11:24:56:
Back to the topic on hand....
Here is a legitimate question for the left.  Just how many people in a caravan would be to many for you to condone entrance into the US?  I'm serious, please quantify!   Best regards,

One person on here, regarding the law/s,
concerning entering a country illegally,
is all for applying the,
rule of law to everyone equally.

So Stopping, and/or charging the, 'sneak' in people,
with the crime they have committed,
is treating everyone, equally.

See: Re: 45 FTW!!  Reply #85  

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: Trump threatens to close the border...
Reply #16 - 03/31/19 at 12:02:38
 
How many in the caravan would you turn down?... what criteria?...
They are looking for asylum,... our Constitution grants that right.

Pub's are all over the Constitution went it suits them... Grin
Not when it don't... Huh
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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MnSpring
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Re: Trump threatens to close the border...
Reply #17 - 03/31/19 at 12:53:52
 
Serowbot wrote on 03/31/19 at 12:02:38:
They are looking for asylum,

Not a problem,
Which would you agree with.
Number 1,  2,  3

1.  Someone comes to the boarder, asks for asylum.
They do what ever is done as to the vetting paperwork.
When the form/application/identification/etc is complete,
and they are approved.
Then they come accost.

2.  Someone comes to the boarder, asks for asylum.
They do what ever is done as to the vetting paperwork.
While they wait for the paperwork to be done.
They are free to go wherever they want in this country,
with the promise they will return, then go back accost,
if it is found that the application is denied, false or they lied on it.

3.   Someone comes to the boarder, asks for asylum.
They do what ever is done as to the vetting paperwork.
While they wait for the paperwork to be done.
They come accost, and are put in a place, in this country,
and all their needs are taken care of,
until they are vetted/paperwork/etc is done.

I am voting for #1.

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: Trump threatens to close the border...
Reply #18 - 03/31/19 at 12:56:12
 
"Here is a legitimate question for the left.  Just how many people in a caravan would be to many for you to condone entrance into the US?  I'm serious, please quantify"

 Zero if done illegally.

 100% if done legally and the resources exist to integrate them safely.

 I would need a cost-assessment, staffing allocation, geographical location, age/gender/health census of immigrants, DHHS protocol and a contingency plan to create a preliminary number.

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Re: Trump threatens to close the border...
Reply #19 - 03/31/19 at 14:08:42
 
pg wrote on 03/31/19 at 11:24:56:
Back to the topic on hand....

Here is a legitimate question for the left.  Just how many people in a caravan would be to many for you to condone entrance into the US?  I'm serious, please quantify!

Best regards,


There aren't "too many".  There are legal, and illegal.  Asylum seekers should all be treated the same.

Curious, did you ask these same questions when we had thousands come from Bosnia in the late 90's?
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Re: Trump threatens to close the border...
Reply #20 - 03/31/19 at 14:09:52
 
MnSpring wrote on 03/31/19 at 11:42:06:
pg wrote on 03/31/19 at 11:24:56:
Back to the topic on hand....
Here is a legitimate question for the left.  Just how many people in a caravan would be to many for you to condone entrance into the US?  I'm serious, please quantify!   Best regards,

One person on here, regarding the law/s,
concerning entering a country illegally,
is all for applying the,
rule of law to everyone equally.

So Stopping, and/or charging the, 'sneak' in people,
with the crime they have committed,
is treating everyone, equally.

See: Re: 45 FTW!!  Reply #85  



For the record, seeking asylum is not "sneaking".
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Re: Trump threatens to close the border...
Reply #21 - 03/31/19 at 15:32:10
 
T And T Garage wrote on 03/31/19 at 14:08:42:
pg wrote on 03/31/19 at 11:24:56:
Back to the topic on hand....

Here is a legitimate question for the left.  Just how many people in a caravan would be to many for you to condone entrance into the US?  I'm serious, please quantify!

Best regards,


There aren't "too many".  There are legal, and illegal.  Asylum seekers should all be treated the same.

Curious, did you ask these same questions when we had thousands come from Bosnia in the late 90's?



Another disparaging comment about people of Slavic decent.  Do you suffer from some kind of Slavaphobia?

An asylum seeker is a type of migrant and may be a refugee, a displaced person, but not an economic migrant. Migrants are not necessarily asylum seekers.  Asylum has two basic requirements. First, an asylum applicant must establish that he or she fears persecution in their home country.  Second, the applicant must prove that he or she would be persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group.

I contend the vast majority of the people seeking entry into the US via the southern border are economic migrants seeking a better life and do not qualify for asylum based on protected grounds.

And back to my orignal question.  Let's say 100 million people we seeking asylum and met the criteria, would you let them in?

Best regards,


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MnSpring
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Re: Trump threatens to close the border...
Reply #22 - 03/31/19 at 16:23:52
 
T And T Garage wrote on 03/31/19 at 14:09:52:
For the record, seeking asylum is not "sneaking".

So these, are people seeking, Asylum ?

‘…According to Bureau officials, smugglers and other illegal aliens in route from Mexico have established more than 50 illegal roads through the monument that damage plants. In addition, the illegal aliens and smugglers have abandoned about 600 vehicles each year and leave behind waste that creates biohazards…”

https://www.desertinvasion.us/invasion_pictures/invasion_tohono.html

“…One land management official described another federal property on Arizona’s border as so unsafe and with resources so destroyed that it is now primarily used for illegal activities and no longer visited by the legal public.  …”
The above is the West part of the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument.

From the National Web Site.
"...Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument is a safe place to visit. However, illegal border crossings and activities, including drug smuggling, occur daily..."

tt, What is your pick, of what should be done,
as post # 17 ?
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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: Trump threatens to close the border...
Reply #23 - 03/31/19 at 16:58:06
 
pg wrote on 03/31/19 at 15:32:10:
Another disparaging comment about people of Slavic decent.  Do you suffer from some kind of Slavaphobia?

Not at all pro golfer - I had no problem with the influx of European asylum seekers.  I asked you if you had a problem. (talk about deflection!)

An asylum seeker is a type of migrant and may be a refugee, a displaced person, but not an economic migrant. Migrants are not necessarily asylum seekers.  Asylum has two basic requirements. First, an asylum applicant must establish that he or she fears persecution in their home country.

So, is everyone in the caravan not an asylum seeker?

 Second, the applicant must prove that he or she would be persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group.

Agreed.  That's the vetting process that these people have to go through.  Just like those from Bosnia, right?

I contend the vast majority of the people seeking entry into the US via the southern border are economic migrants seeking a better life and do not qualify for asylum based on protected grounds.

You can contend all you like - but what you're really doing is assuming.  And you know what happens when you ASSume, right?

And back to my orignal question.  Let's say 100 million people we seeking asylum and met the criteria, would you let them in?

That wasn't part of your original question.  Further, 100 million people is an outrageous ASSumption. (why not say a billion)

In 2018, the US set records for letting in fewer refugees.


Best regards,



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Re: Trump threatens to close the border...
Reply #24 - 03/31/19 at 17:04:40
 
MnSpring wrote on 03/31/19 at 16:23:52:
T And T Garage wrote on 03/31/19 at 14:09:52:
For the record, seeking asylum is not "sneaking".

So these, are people seeking, Asylum ?

‘…According to Bureau officials, smugglers and other illegal aliens in route from Mexico have established more than 50 illegal roads through the monument that damage plants. In addition, the illegal aliens and smugglers have abandoned about 600 vehicles each year and leave behind waste that creates biohazards…”

https://www.desertinvasion.us/invasion_pictures/invasion_tohono.html

“…One land management official described another federal property on Arizona’s border as so unsafe and with resources so destroyed that it is now primarily used for illegal activities and no longer visited by the legal public.  …”
The above is the West part of the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument.

From the National Web Site.
"...Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument is a safe place to visit. However, illegal border crossings and activities, including drug smuggling, occur daily..."

tt, What is your pick, of what should be done,
as post # 17 ?


It's a simple answer mn.  If they try to come here illegally, then they should be sent back.  If they are seeking asylum, then they should be vetted the way every other asylum seeker is treated.

Further, those who use illegal immigrants as part of their labor force should be held accountable as well. (but keep it real - Southern California Arizona,, New Mexico and Texas utilize a bunch of illegals in their workforce)

You assume that all democrats are for "open borders" - we're not.  But you can't treat every single case as black or white.  There are (probably) hundreds of thousands of kids who were brought here illegally and then grew up as only knowing the US as their home.  There has to be a better path to citizenship for them.
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Re: Trump threatens to close the border...
Reply #25 - 03/31/19 at 19:11:05
 
T And T Garage wrote on 03/31/19 at 16:58:06:
pg wrote on 03/31/19 at 15:32:10:
Another disparaging comment about people of Slavic decent.  Do you suffer from some kind of Slavaphobia?

Not at all pro golfer - I had no problem with the influx of European asylum seekers.  I asked you if you had a problem. (talk about deflection!)

An asylum seeker is a type of migrant and may be a refugee, a displaced person, but not an economic migrant. Migrants are not necessarily asylum seekers.  Asylum has two basic requirements. First, an asylum applicant must establish that he or she fears persecution in their home country.

So, is everyone in the caravan not an asylum seeker?

 Second, the applicant must prove that he or she would be persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group.

Agreed.  That's the vetting process that these people have to go through.  Just like those from Bosnia, right?

I contend the vast majority of the people seeking entry into the US via the southern border are economic migrants seeking a better life and do not qualify for asylum based on protected grounds.

You can contend all you like - but what you're really doing is assuming.  And you know what happens when you ASSume, right?

And back to my orignal question.  Let's say 100 million people we seeking asylum and met the criteria, would you let them in?

That wasn't part of your original question.  Further, 100 million people is an outrageous ASSumption. (why not say a billion)

In 2018, the US set records for letting in fewer refugees.


Best regards,





It is not feasible to compare immigration from the Bosnia during the Balkan wars to current issues on the southern border.  The primary reason is the quantity of the migration and because a definitive end could be concluded.  The problem with the southern border has been transpiring for decades.  It is estimated that 12 million illegal immigrants predominantly from Mexico are in the US, I believe this is understated.  The total migration from Bosnia was 130,000.

This month we are on pace for 100,000 apprehensions on the southern border.  Jeh Johnson confirmed this and said the average  migration figure was 30k – 40k per month when he was at the helm.  It has been at this level for years.  I don’t condone these migration numbers regardless of where they come from.   I assure you if millions of Bosnians wanted to come the US, I would have not problem turning that boat around.  Henceforth, I have no problem eliminating all immigration for a short period and implementing a merit based system.  The premise of the system is to permit immigration if they applicant has a special skill set that will benefit the host country.  

I have lived on the border and I have been to Mexico.  In summary, I have first hand knowledge of problems and issues on the border.  Also, how did unmitigated migration work out for the Native American population?

Best regards,
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Re: Trump threatens to close the border...
Reply #26 - 03/31/19 at 20:29:52
 
pg wrote on 03/31/19 at 19:11:05:
It is not feasible to compare immigration from the Bosnia during the Balkan wars to current issues on the southern border.  The primary reason is the quantity of the migration and because a definitive end could be concluded.  The problem with the southern border has been transpiring for decades.  It is estimated that 12 million illegal immigrants predominantly from Mexico are in the US, I believe this is understated.  The total migration from Bosnia was 130,000.

12 million over decades, 130,000 + in how many years?

This month we are on pace for 100,000 apprehensions on the southern border.  Jeh Johnson confirmed this and said the average  migration figure was 30k – 40k per month when he was at the helm.  It has been at this level for years.  I don’t condone these migration numbers regardless of where they come from.  

You're talking apples and oranges.  These caravans are not all illegals.

First and foremost, you have to acknowledge that.


I assure you if millions of Bosnians wanted to come the US, I would have not problem turning that boat around.  Henceforth, I have no problem eliminating all immigration for a short period and implementing a merit based system.  The premise of the system is to permit immigration if they applicant has a special skill set that will benefit the host country.  

You and I live in different Americas then.  That's not the way we do it in my country.  Immigration doesn't mean open borders and to close off our borders to a "merit system"?  You must be joking.

I have lived on the border and I have been to Mexico.  In summary, I have first hand knowledge of problems and issues on the border.  Also, how did unmitigated migration work out for the Native American population?


Best regards,


Well, like I've said over an over - we're not talking about unmitigated immigration.  What makes this country great is not trump and his trumpettes... it's the diversity and acceptance of people of all races, nations and creeds.
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Re: Trump threatens to close the border...
Reply #27 - 04/01/19 at 05:00:26
 
Serowbot wrote on 03/31/19 at 12:02:38:
How many in the caravan would you turn down?... what criteria?...
They are looking for asylum,... our Constitution grants that right.

Pub's are all over the Constitution went it suits them... Grin
Not when it don't... Huh


I'm not sure that's true. I don't recall the Constitution guaranteeing asylum, does it? Does it guarantee a hearing? I don't think so. I'm thinking this was a court case later that somehow got stretched into a few thinking the Constitution says something it doesn't. Besides, if its not mentioned specifically, wouldn't the 10th amendment apply, that this is a state's right? Granted, the 10th is routinely ignored .....
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Re: Trump threatens to close the border...
Reply #28 - 04/01/19 at 05:14:42
 
You and I live in different Americas then.  That's not the way we do it in my country.  Immigration doesn't mean open borders and to close off our borders to a "merit system"?  You must be joking.

Yes, it is the way we do it in America, at least it was until Democrats found a voting block. Heck, thousands, tens of thousands were sent back on the ships they came in on at Ellis Island if they were deemed to be a likely drag on the nation. Back then they did a quick examination, today we have the means to do a real one but we're overwhelmed at the border. 100,000 in one month?! Not a crisis? You must be joking.

Here's what we all know with absolute certainty: If legal and illegal immigrants from South and Central America voted 90% Republican, there would have been a Wall built with Bill Clinton's name on it within a year. Our liberal friends would be talking about how this immigration harms African American employment and is a drag on wages. In an interesting ironic twist, if Unions were as strong as they used to be, they'd send "union observers " to the border. Immigrants would suddenly have a strange case of widespread broken thumbs and the border would turn back into a ghost town.....
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Re: Trump threatens to close the border...
Reply #29 - 04/01/19 at 06:13:50
 
WebsterMark wrote on 04/01/19 at 05:14:42:
You and I live in different Americas then.  That's not the way we do it in my country.  Immigration doesn't mean open borders and to close off our borders to a "merit system"?  You must be joking.

Yes, it is the way we do it in America, at least it was until Democrats found a voting block. Heck, thousands, tens of thousands were sent back on the ships they came in on at Ellis Island if they were deemed to be a likely drag on the nation. Back then they did a quick examination, today we have the means to do a real one but we're overwhelmed at the border. 100,000 in one month?! Not a crisis? You must be joking.

Here's what we all know with absolute certainty: If legal and illegal immigrants from South and Central America voted 90% Republican, there would have been a Wall built with Bill Clinton's name on it within a year. Our liberal friends would be talking about how this immigration harms African American employment and is a drag on wages. In an interesting ironic twist, if Unions were as strong as they used to be, they'd send "union observers " to the border. Immigrants would suddenly have a strange case of widespread broken thumbs and the border would turn back into a ghost town.....


Once again, you ASSume far too much.  The entire Obama-era saw a dramatic increase in arrests and deportations at the southern border.

This is not a crisis.  This is a political hack job to steal money to build a pointless wall.
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