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Got My Stuck Pilot Out.... Finally! (Read 113 times)
SlabSlider
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Got My Stuck Pilot Out.... Finally!
02/18/19 at 16:18:51
 
Well, it took a while but I got my stuck/stripped pilot jet out by using some of the tips found throughout the site here.  I used PB Blaster, a propane torch, a filed down allen key gently tapped into the opening, all to no avail.  As a last ditch before heading to Ace to get a screw extractor, I reluctantly got out my drill and "carefully" widened the opening in the jet a couple of sizes. I left just enough to lightly tap a screwdriver into what was left of the stripped top of the jet, gave it a turn, and it finally came out.  I cleaned it all up good and installed a 55 pilot from the kit I had ordered from Lancer, thanks Lancer!.  So now my setup is 55 pilot, 155 main, 1 washer on the needle, cone filter and Dyna muffler.  Mixture screw around 1 1/4 turns out.  I ride at about 300 feet above sea level here in humid middle GA.  I took the bike for a test run and there's a little pop between shifts but seems to be quieter than before, no backfires and no "poof" on shutdown.  Mid range and top end are strong and steady.  Hoping it's good to go now.  Does this set up sound about right for my elevation or a tad too rich?
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batman
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Re: Got My Stuck Pilot Out.... Finally!
Reply #1 - 02/18/19 at 17:13:42
 
The pop when shifting is the throttle closing ,I'd try opening the fuel mix screw from 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 0r 1 3/4 ''  and see if it stops.
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stewmills
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Re: Got My Stuck Pilot Out.... Finally!
Reply #2 - 02/18/19 at 20:20:05
 
Middle GA.  I’m just over in Auburn. You should catch us on our North GA rides this spring.
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2008 | 152/52.5–Air Mix 3/4 | Rotella T4 | Seat Lift w/Sheepskin | Speedo Rattle | Rear Pulley Shim | 140/90-15 Rear | Kaw Front Pulley | Relocated Rear Signals

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Dave
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Re: Got My Stuck Pilot Out.... Finally!
Reply #3 - 02/19/19 at 02:54:26
 
batman wrote on 02/18/19 at 17:13:42:
The pop when shifting is the throttle closing ,I'd try opening the fuel mix screw from 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 0r 1 3/4 ''  and see if it stops.


And/or......don't let the throttle shut completely when shifting - just back off the throttle far enough for the rpm to drop (but not completely closed).
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Re: Got My Stuck Pilot Out.... Finally!
Reply #4 - 02/19/19 at 07:05:56
 
Thanks for the tips gents!  I backed the screw out to 1 3/4 for the ride in this morning, popping is gone but it died a couple times coming to a stop.  Do i just need to crank up the idle and leave it alone?  Running really good though otherwise.

That sounds pretty good Stewmills, when do y'all typically go up there?
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Re: Got My Stuck Pilot Out.... Finally!
Reply #5 - 02/19/19 at 07:32:17
 
Slabslider:

When the bike idles fine at a steady speed - but stalls when you come to a stop (especially when you chop the throttle quickly)....is a sign of too low an idle speed or a lean mixture.

You should adjust your idle fuel mixture with the bike running.....not by just counting the number of turns from seated.  Opening the screw 1.5 turns gives you a good starting point - but the "setting" has to be done on a bike that is warmed up.  You need to adjust your idle speed pretty low for this adjustment - then turn the idle speed back up before you go riding.  If your idle speed is too high it is impossible to make the adjustment accurately, as the slide may be opening a small amount and allowing fuel to flow from the needle jet where the slide /needle is inserted.  Don't spend a lot of time with this....the oil pressure is low and there is no air flow over the engine - with experience this takes less than a minute to drop the idle speed, adjust the mixture, and then set the idle speed back up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxpQjDQzX7g&t=269s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm5mB3R8Ucw&t=228s

If you can turn the idle fuel mixture all the way in and the bike doesn't go lean and stall - your #55 pilot jet is too big.

I think that a #55 pilot and #155 main is too big...even at sea level.  You should try running the next size jets and see if the performance doesn't improve - slightly rich mixtures can allow a bike to run OK....but the performance isn't crisp and you may notice more power with the next size smaller main jet.  Only having a single washer on the needle is also making the mixture rich....and 2 or 3 washers may improve the power.

The only time I have seen these large jets necessary is when somebody installs an open pipe and/or a cone filter that is not working well....and they are trying to compensate for the affects.  With a Dyna muffler and stock air filter, most often a #150 main, 3 washers and a #50 or #52.5 pilot jet work best (sometimes you need 2 washers if there is a surge at low throttle settings).  
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Re: Got My Stuck Pilot Out.... Finally!
Reply #6 - 02/19/19 at 08:51:47
 
Thank you for the insight Dave!  In the interest of changing one item at a time to determine overall effect, would you recommend going down to a 150 main, adjusting idle mix , and check ride before messing with the pilot jet and washers?
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Re: Got My Stuck Pilot Out.... Finally!
Reply #7 - 02/19/19 at 09:06:53
 
SlabSlider wrote on 02/19/19 at 07:05:56:
That sounds pretty good Stewmills, when do y'all typically go up there?


Where exactly in GA are you?

Our rides depend on everyone's schedule, but maybe sometime in April/May/June and sometime later such as August...and if we get real brave maybe once more in October.  Just keep an eye on the Cafe and you will see us posting a topic for the rides a month or so on advance for planning with reasonably descriptive topic titles.

We will juggle our trips, sometimes going to the Dragon area in Robbinsville NC and other times staying further South around Suches GA. We usually camp and keep it inexpensive, but will occasionally get a cheap room or two if that's what everyone wants to do.

Usually me, Dave, MM, sometimes Oldfeller are the regulars.
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Re: Got My Stuck Pilot Out.... Finally!
Reply #8 - 02/19/19 at 09:17:28
 
SlabSlider wrote on 02/19/19 at 08:51:47:
Thank you for the insight Dave!  In the interest of changing one item at a time to determine overall effect, would you recommend going down to a 150 main, adjusting idle mix , and check ride before messing with the pilot jet and washers?  


I hope you installed allen head screws in the float bowl...you can change jets more easily when you don't have to remove the carb.

The proper order for making changes to jetting....is get the main jet sorted out first, then the Pilot....then work on the needle setting.

For the main, get the bike in high gear about 35 mph on an open highway, and roll on full throttle and hang on until you get chicken and need to slow down.  The bike should pull smoothly and strong.  If it feels like the bike sounds smoother and begins to make more power as you roll off the throttle - that is supposed to be an indication the main jet is too big.  If the bike feels unsteady/uneven at full throttle - that can be an indication the bike is too lean.  It is a bit hard for me to hear/feel the minor changes, so I generally keep adding larger jets until I can hear the bike blubber under full throttle and notice the power loss, then I go down a couple of jets sizes and try again.

Then you select a pilot jet by setting the mixture screw - you want a pilot jet that results in the screw being 2 - 2.5 turns out for the smoothest idle.

Finally you start shimming the needle to allow smooth acceleration at low throttle settings.

When your bike is properly jetted - don't be concerned if the bike has a slow idle speed or uneven running when your first start the bike and the engine is not up to operating temperature...that is a good sign that your jetting is not too rich - it should run a bit erratic with a cold engine.  You can leave the enrichment lever on while the bike is warming up and you begin your ride - but don't forget to turn it OFF after a few miles.  I start my bike and wait about 30 seconds for the engine to get used to running, then I ride off slowly and never apply full throttle until the engine has a chance to warm up.    
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Re: Got My Stuck Pilot Out.... Finally!
Reply #9 - 02/19/19 at 09:27:30
 
I agree with everything David  said, but The one thing that stands out is only 1 washer on the needle jet ,I'd change that to 2 first, before swapping any jets.
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Re: Got My Stuck Pilot Out.... Finally!
Reply #10 - 02/19/19 at 11:12:26
 
Great advice from all and makes sense to me.  I think my plan of action will be to put another washer on the needle as Batman recommended for a starting reference point.  Then i'll adjust air mix screw and run Dave's main jet test procedure to get the main right and moving on to pilot and needle washers as suggested/required.  No problems changing jets and washers, got that down pat, but Its a lot tougher for me to tell just exactly what "optimal" carb tuning is for this bike. It might have been so jacked up when i started messing with the jets/washers that just about anything I did seemed to result in a perceived improvement.  It seemed to run pretty good this morning but the dying at stops has got to go.

Stewmills, I'm in Macon.  I'll keep an eye peeled for posts on trip plans.  Sounds like a good time!
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Re: Got My Stuck Pilot Out.... Finally!
Reply #11 - 02/24/19 at 19:39:42
 
Thought id report back on my experiments thus far.  Put another washer on the needle bringing me up to 2 total.  Adjusted the idle screw for max idle rpm.  Set at 2 1/4 turns. Bike will shut off if i turn the screw all the way in.  Ran it up in high gear like Dave recommended and did not notice any power surge or smoother running when i backed off at about 75 mph.  Mid range is smooth and bike seems to have plenty of acceleration.  Some small pops when closing the throttle while changing the lower gears but idles fine when stopping now.  No backfiring and no poof at shutdown.  I pulled the plug and it was a nice desert tan color. I think ill stay with the 55 pilot and 155 main for now and just see how she does.  Im pleased with the performance overall. Thanks for all the tips, much appreciated!
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Re: Got My Stuck Pilot Out.... Finally!
Reply #12 - 02/24/19 at 20:07:13
 
If the small pops when you close the throttle aren't very loud , more like a rumbling that's normal for a well tuned thumper, all four stroke singles do this. It's the nature of the beast. I'd ride it the way it's tuned right now ,you seem to have it very close, raising the idle speed 100/200 rpm may help. If the pops get your goat, you may try to adjust the TEV valve spring  (carefully shorten - cutting away only about  1/3 of a coil at a time) to further enrich the fuel in the idle circuit.
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« Last Edit: 02/24/19 at 21:12:24 by batman »  

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