SuzukiSavage.com - I can't find my shocked face

LostArtist

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Re: I can't find my shocked face
Reply #60 - 01/11/19 at 13:36:16

I'm for open borders, all this crap has convinced me that's the only fair way. Why do you want to deny these people safety, a chance for economic improvement in their lives, etc... WHY? America takes the poorest of the poor and turns them into productive tax paying citizens in a generation, we've done that for 2 centuries, why stop that for the southern border?

again, I'm fine with increasing technology and security at our legal crossing points, you know WHERE THE DRUGS are coming in, but, no, no wall,

and especially NO BLANK CHECK, cause that's what this is, where are the plans? where are the details of this wall Trump wants? they don't exist, HE HAS NO PLAN. all he wants is to say no, no, no and throw a temper tantrum and be a big baby.

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LostArtist

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Re: I can't find my shocked face
Reply #61 - 01/11/19 at 13:51:40

verslagen1 wrote on 01/11/19 at 13:27:01:

Are you so afraid of giving trump a victory that you'll hold the gub's in shutdown as hostage.
We already know trump doesn't give a sh!t how long it's locked up.

And BTW, even if trump veto's the bill, congress can over ride the veto if they get both houses to vote for it.

honestly, if it'd get him to shut up and do NOTHING ELSE to our immigration laws, let's give him the $5 billion, most estimates say that's good for about 200 miles of "wall" . it's a 2,000 mile border, 650 miles already have some kind of man made
barrier on it, another 200 miles isn't a bfd

now I'd much much much rather use that money to increase our immigration courts and give people the due process they deserve as their INALIENBLE RIGHTS AS HUMANS, or funding for other immigration services

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MShipley Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 681	Re: I can't find my shocked face Reply #62 - 01/11/19 at 13:53:13 Thank you for proving my points. All talk and blame and NO action. NOTHING but the same old BS.
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T And T Garage Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 9839	Re: I can't find my shocked face Reply #63 - 01/11/19 at 13:55:48 MShipley wrote on 01/11/19 at 13:53:13: Thank you for proving my points. All talk and blame and NO action. NOTHING but the same old BS. taps mic harder... hello? Is this thing on? No blame m - just real world. trump is a liar and the country is sick of it. Take the $5 Billion and do something worthwhile with it.
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Eegore

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Re: I can't find my shocked face
Reply #64 - 01/11/19 at 14:33:43

"Why don't we focus on what WE CAN do and then DO SOMETHING."

"Thank you for proving my points. All talk and blame and NO action. NOTHING but the same old BS."

Looking back through your post I can't find a clear difference between your complaining and anyone else's. Maybe you can clarify what you are doing about the current border control issues that separates you from the people proving your point.

I for one have worked in tandem with CBP, ICE, DHS, and am currently developing training exercises with the US Navy. I have been down and seen the 8 wall prototypes and was there when CBP asked for more visibility options in the physical structure. Also I post here to share my opinion and hear others.

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LostArtist

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Re: I can't find my shocked face
Reply #65 - 01/11/19 at 14:41:26

MShipley wrote on 01/11/19 at 13:53:13:

Thank you for proving my points. All talk and blame and NO action. NOTHING but the same old BS.

well EXCUSE ME for not being president or in congress . Smiley

do you need stick pulled from your bum??

Edit: okay, yeah, that's a bit much, sorry MS. but seriously, as normal everyday people just trying to get by paycheck to paycheck.... what do you want us to do? It's useless for me to contact my senator, he's well up Trump's butt... same as my house representative.... so if all I got is yelling here, that's what ya get Kiss

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verslagen1

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Re: I can't find my shocked face
Reply #66 - 01/11/19 at 15:23:33

I believe the wall should be limited to the areas that require tear gas to control the mobs.
Congress needs to write the bills that expands immigration.
Why force them to pay exorbitant amounts for coyotes, pack them in trucks like cattle or marched across the desert to die.
Only to fear deportation or extortion at every cross roads.

That is the true lack of empathy.

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LostArtist

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Re: I can't find my shocked face
Reply #67 - 01/11/19 at 15:36:31

verslagen1 wrote on 01/11/19 at 15:23:33:

I believe the wall should be limited to the areas that require tear gas to control the mobs.
Congress needs to write the bills that expands immigration.
Why force them to pay exorbitant amounts for coyotes, pack them in trucks like cattle or marched across the desert to die.
Only to fear deportation or extortion at every cross roads.

That is the true lack of empathy.

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MShipley

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Re: I can't find my shocked face
Reply #68 - 01/11/19 at 16:00:50

LostArtist wrote on 01/11/19 at 14:41:26:

MShipley wrote on 01/11/19 at 13:53:13:

Thank you for proving my points. All talk and blame and NO action. NOTHING but the same old BS.

well EXCUSE ME for not being president or in congress . Smiley

do you need stick pulled from your bum??

Edit: okay, yeah, that's a bit much, sorry MS. but seriously, as normal everyday people just trying to get by paycheck to paycheck.... what do you want us to do? It's useless for me to contact my senator, he's well up Trump's butt... same as my house representative.... so if all I got is yelling here, that's what ya get Kiss

Lost, I actually sympathize with your view. As you know I spend my time and money working with the poor in Central America. I believe you really do care. However we cant just open the borders to the world. Where would it stop? Are they going to sleep under bridges? If we declared our borders open the humanitarian crisis would be unbelievable. Everyone would run the risk and the death and extortion would sky rocket. The best we can do to help is to do it where they live.

What do I think they should do? Build the wall! Like I said every leader we have had has said we need barriers for the last 20 years. Do it. If it dosnt work we will then know and can move to something else.

Yes Lost, I get frustrated and need to yell also sometimes. We need to stop making this about Dems and Repubs.

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WebsterMark

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Re: I can't find my shocked face
Reply #69 - 01/12/19 at 03:51:33

Serowbot wrote on 01/11/19 at 13:10:41:

MShipley wrote on 01/11/19 at 12:35:09:

Why is Trump so adamant about this?

Trump has pounded the wall message since day one of his candidacy because it polled well with Republican focus groups.
Why is this "crisis" happening 2 years into his term, after losing control of the house?...

Do you have any crisis that you wait 2 years to do anything about?.
If you do,... is it really a crisis?...

Trump's crisis is Russia... the wall is a rallying cry to hold on to the base as the facts of Trump's Russian collusion come to light.
The wall is chum for a shark feeding frenzy.

For crying out loud Sew, you’re not gonna take Rachel Maddow’s job so give it a rest. Trump’s been talking about the border from day one, long before this Russian “crisis “ you guys made up.

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Serowbot

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Re: I can't find my shocked face
Reply #70 - 01/12/19 at 09:02:31

WebsterMark wrote on 01/12/19 at 03:51:33:

Serowbot wrote on 01/11/19 at 13:10:41:

Trump has pounded the wall message since day one of his candidacy because it polled well with Republican focus groups.
Why is this "crisis" happening 2 years into his term, after losing control of the house?...

For crying out loud Sew, you’re not gonna take Rachel Maddow’s job so give it a rest. Trump’s been talking about the border from day one, long before this Russian “crisis “ you guys made up.

Can you read?... Huh

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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh

...

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eau de sauvage

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Re: I can't find my shocked face
Reply #71 - 01/12/19 at 16:06:39

Eegore wrote on 01/09/19 at 16:10:43:

"But the point is that to refer to illegals as ultimately 'costing' anything is an economically unfeasible proposition."

Why is that? US Citizens cost money, why would illegal immigrants be excluded from infrastructure, healthcare, law enforcement, public safety and general public funds cost evaluations?

Overall people are a net gain, there are "costs" and there are "costs". Let me explain... you might say that your bike "costs" you to run it. You mean of course the consumables and parts that wear out. But if we look at the larger "costs" in a cost/benefit analysis, you'd find either that any "cost" has in fact just been you paying for something you liked, OR say if it is a commuter bike, whatever it "costs" to run would be less than the "costs" you'd have to pay to get to work anyway. Looking at it the second way, you could say it didn't really "cost" anything to run the bike in fact it contributed to your pay packet when you add back the public transport cost you didn't pay. Or perhaps you couldn't even get a particular job without the bike due to location. You see what has happened is that a word like "costs" is used in such a puerile manner by Trump that the word loses all subtlety of meaning.

If anyone is going to talk about immigration "costing" anything then seriously if the "costs" are not properly laid out and complete then it's just open to whatever prejudices people want to apply that suits their narrative. In the case of Trump he wants to pretend that the "costs" of immigration are an influx of violent rapists and murders.

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WebsterMark

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Re: I can't find my shocked face
Reply #72 - 01/13/19 at 06:17:28

Serowbot wrote on 01/12/19 at 09:02:31:

WebsterMark wrote on 01/12/19 at 03:51:33:

Serowbot wrote on 01/11/19 at 13:10:41:

Trump has pounded the wall message since day one of his candidacy because it polled well with Republican focus groups.
Why is this "crisis" happening 2 years into his term, after losing control of the house?...

For crying out loud Sew, you’re not gonna take Rachel Maddow’s job so give it a rest. Trump’s been talking about the border from day one, long before this Russian “crisis “ you guys made up.

Can you read?... Huh

I read well thanks. A fairly good back and forth was going along and you jump in with more of your 9/11 style conspiracy crap....

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WebsterMark

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Re: I can't find my shocked face
Reply #73 - 01/14/19 at 06:26:13

If anyone is going to talk about immigration "costing" anything then seriously if the "costs" are not properly laid out and complete then it's just open to whatever prejudices people want to apply that suits their narrative. In the case of Trump he wants to pretend that the "costs" of immigration are an influx of violent rapists and murders.

There is a COST of rape and murder due to illegal aliens. That's an undeniable fact. You can ignored or explained that cost away by saying there is already a cost from rape and murder due to US citizens. That's true, but there is an additional cost from illegal aliens.

Now, if you want to argue that cost is mitigated by benefits from illegal aliens, go ahead. Maybe you could make that case. I could make the case that the benefits from legal immigrants with green cards issued to top level scientist and doctors from other nations exceeds the cost of the small number of rapes and murders they commit. I'm sure there are examples of that group committing those crimes, but my sense is its a very rare occurrence.

The unescapable bottom line is there is an increase in violent crime due to illegal aliens. Period. Full stop. Is it offset by the overall benefit to the nation? That's a question for each one to answer. I say no. You say yes because it gives additional votes to the Democratic party.

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LostArtist

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Re: I can't find my shocked face
Reply #74 - 01/14/19 at 13:35:42

WebsterMark wrote on 01/14/19 at 06:26:13:

If anyone is going to talk about immigration "costing" anything then seriously if the "costs" are not properly laid out and complete then it's just open to whatever prejudices people want to apply that suits their narrative. In the case of Trump he wants to pretend that the "costs" of immigration are an influx of violent rapists and murders.

There is a COST of rape and murder due to illegal aliens. That's an undeniable fact. You can ignored or explained that cost away by saying there is already a cost from rape and murder due to US citizens. That's true, but there is an additional cost from illegal aliens.

Now, if you want to argue that cost is mitigated by benefits from illegal aliens, go ahead. Maybe you could make that case. I could make the case that the benefits from legal immigrants with green cards issued to top level scientist and doctors from other nations exceeds the cost of the small number of rapes and murders they commit. I'm sure there are examples of that group committing those crimes, but my sense is its a very rare occurrence.

The unescapable bottom line is there is an increase in violent crime due to illegal aliens. Period. Full stop. Is it offset by the overall benefit to the nation? That's a question for each one to answer. I say no. You say yes because it gives additional votes to the Democratic party.

no, it has nothing to do with the Democratic Party, it's just MATH. it's a small percentage of illegals that commit crime, now listen, cause this is where it gets tricky.... THE REST (YOU KNOW, THE FAR FAR 90+% MAJORITY) OF THEM DONT' COMMIT CRIME . so therefore, via math, the benefits outweigh the danger.

in fact:

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