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Context (Read 134 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Context
11/21/18 at 03:42:32
 
Some of the 5,800 US troops deployed to the southern US border right before the midterm election may be withdrawn as early as this week, however Trump administration officials concerned about ending the mission too soon are set on delaying their departure, according to the Los Angeles Times.



The first stage of troop withdrawal would primarily consist of engineering units which have finished their task of installing razor wire and physical obstacles at border crossing points - while the original scope of the mission had authorized a deployment until December 15, unless the Department of Homeland Security requested an extension.


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In a visit last Wednesday to the Texas border town of Donna, Defense Secretary James N. Mattis said that troops would be finished installing barriers and other initial tasks within a week to 10 days, although he said additional requests for help from the Department of Homeland Security were expected. -LA Times

That said, if an extension is approved, officials told The Times "the goal is to have all the troops home by Christmas."

According to a defense official, officials are discussing whether to grant troops authority to use "proportional" force to protect Border Patrol personnel in the event of violence from the migrants, according to CNN. Troops at the border are currently prohibited from using force except for self-protection.

A decision to permit troops to provide security to the Border Patrol would represent a significant expansion of their mission.

It could also raise questions about whether the mission is in compliance with a U.S. law that prohibits active troops from engaging in domestic law enforcement functions.

The Pentagon had rejected a similar proposal in internal deliberations before the troops were originally deployed in late October, according to the official, who spoke about the deliberations in return for anonymity. -LA Times

The move comes as thousands of Central American migrants arrive in Tijuana, where the locals are not taking too kindly to their neighbors from the South. The migrants, seeking asylum in the United States, may be stuck in Tijuana for months.

Tijuana mayor Juan Manuel Gastelum has referred to the arrival of so many migrants at once an "avalanche," and says the city will struggle to take care of them. He calculates that they will remain in the city for at least six months as they go through the process of filing asylum claims. At a rate of around 100 applications per day, US border inspectors won't be able to process all 3,000 names currently registered in a notebook that the migrants assembled en route.


Donald J. Trump

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The Mayor of Tijuana, Mexico, just stated that “the City is ill-prepared to handle this many migrants, the backlog could last 6 months.” Likewise, the U.S. is ill-prepared for this invasion, and will not stand for it. They are causing crime and big problems in Mexico. Go home!

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Along with engineering units, the Pentagon sent military police, helicopter units, logistics, public affairs, a small number of infantry and other types of military specialists to the border.

The push to begin withdrawing some troops more quickly, as first reported by Politico, comes from US commanders who insist there is no reason to keep the troops away from their families at Thanksgiving once their assigned missions are completed.

Trump officials, however, may be concerned that a wide-scale withdrawal will fuel criticisms that the deployment was a political stunt designed to drive GOP voters to the polls during midterms. Some Democratic lawmakers have vowed to launch congressional investigations of the operation when they take control of the House in January.



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Eegore
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Re: Context
Reply #1 - 11/23/18 at 10:57:41
 

 I say let them conduct investigations.

 Nowhere has it been a standard to implement engineering units beyond their designated capacity and then keep them in theatre in roles they are not designed for.  The investigation should show that engineers are not used for law enforcement, and do not maintain deployment at the locations of their structures or design.

 This is domestic law enforcement, not only is it useless to keep infrastructure personnel along the border, its illegal if they take on law enforcement duties.  

 I've had to explain this to a lot of people who think "withdrawal" means all these enlisted personnel are packing up and driving away.
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justin_o_guy2
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Reply #2 - 11/23/18 at 17:33:28
 
This is domestic law enforcement, not only is it useless to keep infrastructure personnel along the border, its illegal if they take on law enforcement duties.  

No, it's not. Defending the BORDER is a military job.
Protecting the country from
Invasion
IS a military action.
Armed or not, an invasion is an invasion.
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Reply #3 - 11/23/18 at 19:38:18
 

 Incorrect.

 This is not classified by any technical means through wartime conventions as an "invasion".  We can hash out the semantics all day long but as of now this is not considered a foreign invasion by any branch that allocated resources for such an event.  If it were then the Presidential and House authorizations that are happening right now wouldn't be happening.  

 Just saying "invasion" doesn't make it so.  Saying "invasion" a million times doesn't change the Posse Comitatus restrictions.  If anything they should be saying this is drug interdiction which allows more widespread permissions.  And for all the geniuses saying that the USMC and Navy are not mentioned in the act they need to brush up on 32 C.F.R. Section 213.2, 1992.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Context
Reply #4 - 11/23/18 at 20:58:21
 
Whatever suits you.
Hundreds or thousands of
UNinvited, unwanted, people coming into a place
Is
An
Invasion
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Reply #5 - 11/23/18 at 23:01:11
 

 You can call it that, but that's not meeting the criteria to mandate military personnel to take part in domestic law enforcement per US law.

 Say invasion 10 million times and it still wont change the law.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Context
Reply #6 - 11/23/18 at 23:23:06
 
It's the Job of our military to protect our borders.
That we have allowed it to be Demilitarized over the years changes nothing.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Reply #7 - 11/24/18 at 01:39:58
 
 You are right, demilitarizing the border has not changed Posse Comitatus.  Its still illegal if its domestic law enforcement, CBP and ICE are domestic and as such military involvement needs the steps being taken now.  Those steps are taken because if they weren't it would be illegal, no matter how many times its called an invasion, say it more and more and the law doesn't change.  Say its the military's job to protect the borders, as much as you want, and the law still doesn't change.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Context
Reply #8 - 11/24/18 at 01:46:40
 
Domestic law enforcement
That's law enforcement against
Americans.
Foreigners who are trying to illegally enter America really don't have a constitutional right.
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Younger than most
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Re: Context
Reply #9 - 11/24/18 at 07:09:39
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 11/24/18 at 01:46:40:
Foreigners who are trying to illegally enter America really don't have a constitutional right.  

If the Mayor of Tijuana Mexico,
says something,
(that others believe is a ‘bad’ thing to say)

Would that person be, Racist ? ? ?

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Context
Reply #10 - 11/24/18 at 07:46:09
 
Why do we have Posse Comitatus.?
To limit the government from being able to use the military against its own people.
Not to limit the government from being able to secure the border.
Misunderstanding the Reasons Why laws exist is causing problems.
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Reply #11 - 11/24/18 at 07:52:02
 
To limit the government from being able to use the military against its own people.

Correct.
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Reply #12 - 11/24/18 at 08:04:11
 
 Why a law exists, and how it is used today are two different things.  If it weren't adjusted then nuclear proliferation wouldn't be a thing as we as citizens would be allowed to have armament including ballistic warheads.  Its in the 2nd Amendment after all.

 If this is an actual invasion why does the President agree to, and utilize the authorization process instead of using the use of force standard?

 Because of the law.

 Why is it so hard to understand that what you are seeing put into practice right now is not a response to an invasion by the US military, because its not an invasion according to the US military?  

 Keep saying its an invasion, say it more and more, say domestic law enforcement is the military over and over and see if that changes the law, and how its applied today.  

 The process being used is due to law, not due to anyone being able to just say whatever they want to use the military however they think it should at the time.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Context
Reply #13 - 11/24/18 at 08:12:01
 
Why a law exists, and how it is used today are two different things.


That's a bizarre statement.

Why a law exists doesn't matter if you can twist the original intent to do something else?
Posse Comitatus exists SOLELY to protect Americans from the government.
Period.
You can rave on about how words aren't what they are, invasion is invasion.
And Trump is in his rights to protect the border with military and protect our border patrol agents with military.
Why is that so, you may ask.

Because the military is not being used
Against
Americans...
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: Context
Reply #14 - 11/24/18 at 08:16:17
 
These "invaders" are stopping at the border to apply for asylum, and asking for jobs...
Did the Nazis do that?...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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