Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
This otta go over (Read 98 times)
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
This otta go over
11/13/18 at 21:56:28
 
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/11/paul-craig-roberts/a-civil-war-lesson-for...


Lincoln understood that he had no authority under the Constitution to abolish slavery. In his inaugural address he said: “I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.” The North had no intention of going to war over slavery. The same day that the Republican Congress passed the tariff, Congress passed the Corwin Amendment that added more constitutional protection to slavery.

Lincoln said that the South could have all the slavery that it wanted as long as the Southern states paid the tariff. The North would not go to war over slavery, but it would to collect the tariff. Lincoln said that “there needs to be no bloodshed or violence” over collecting the tariff, but that he will use the government’s power “to collect the duties and imposts.” The tariff was important to the North, because it financed Northern industrialization at the economic expense of the South.

During the decades prior to Southern Secession, the conflict between North and South was over the tariff, not over slavery. Slavery played a role only in the South’s effort to keep a balance in the voting power of “free states” and “slave states” in the attempt to prevent the passage of a tariff.

The Neoconservative Th...
Dr. Paul Craig Roberts
Best Price: $11.44
Buy New $12.84
(as of 11:20 EST - Details)


The South’s effort to exit the union legally and constitutionally was to no avail. Secession was declared a rebellion, and the South was invaded.

The misportrayal of the War of Northern Aggression as Lincoln’s war to free slaves is also impossible to reconcile with Lincoln’s view of blacks. Here is “the Great Emancipator” in his own words:

“I have said that the separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation [of the white and black races] . . . Such separation . . . must be affected by colonization” [sending blacks to Liberia or Central America]. (Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln vol. II, p. 409).

“Let us be brought to believe it is morally right, and . . . favorable to . . . our interest, to transfer the African to his native clime.” (Collected Works, vol. II, p. 409).

“I am not nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people” (Collected Works, vol. III, pp. 145-146).

How was Lincoln turned into “the Great Emancipator”?

Just as Civil War history is mistaught in order to support the Identity Politics agenda of fomenting hatred of whites, the histories of the two world wars were fabricated in order to blame Germany, more about which later.

There is more.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
LostArtist
Ex Member




Re: This otta go over
Reply #1 - 11/14/18 at 10:12:18
 
"there is more"

what? out of context quotes????
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: This otta go over
Reply #2 - 11/14/18 at 15:35:18
 
Those quotes stand fully explained inside themselves.
They are not out of context.
They are in disagreement with what we were taught in school.
Time to think about things.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
Eegore
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 7990

Re: This otta go over
Reply #3 - 11/14/18 at 15:47:27
 

 I was taught this in school.  We actually had to use Lincoln's actual writings in at least two cited sources and one economic factor or it was an instant failing grade.

 I remember as far back as 5th grade being told slavery wasn't the reason for the Civil War, but that's only one school system out of several nationwide.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: This otta go over
Reply #4 - 11/14/18 at 17:15:19
 
Where did you go to school, E?

For the confused

out of context
[out of context]
DEFINITION
without the surrounding words or circumstances and so not fully understandable.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
Eegore
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 7990

Re: This otta go over
Reply #5 - 11/14/18 at 19:30:20
 

 I went to school in Colorado.

 I asked my cousin who is in high school now what the Civil War was about and he said it was multiple reasons.  He was aware that Lincoln intended to extradite blacks and he goes to school in Boston.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: This otta go over
Reply #6 - 11/14/18 at 19:34:46
 
In Texas, THE answer to
What caused the civil war
It was
Slavery.
Lincoln was only interested in freeing slaves.

The TRUTH was completely buried.
I discovered it.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
Eegore
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 7990

Re: This otta go over
Reply #7 - 11/14/18 at 19:41:13
 

 That's interesting, I would be interested in having some textbooks from TX looked through to see how they presented the material.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: This otta go over
Reply #8 - 11/14/18 at 20:59:52
 
That's probably not going to be easy.
Those books are really old and not readily available. It was one of the few answers on the tests I could get right.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
LostArtist
Ex Member




Re: This otta go over
Reply #9 - 11/15/18 at 14:10:19
 
slavery wasn't the only reason for the Civil War, but it was the KEY reason, just look at the papers of secession from ALL THE STATES that seceeded, they all mention slavery, ALL of them.  

now I was taught that Lincoln didn't really care one way other, that famous quote or paraphrase that Lincoln would have held the union together with or without freeing slaves is true enough.  

but the original post, left a lot of ... and clearly taken out of context quotes, that NO, don't stand alone.  because NOTHING really stands alone.

but yeah, I might be struggling with the idea that Lincoln wasn't an abolitionist, or at least as abolitionist as I'd like and that he just used that as a platform to sell the war and the idea that he wanted to send the slaves back to Africa is new to me and I wonder how serious he was about that, since it didn't happen....  politicians do say some crazy things sometimes and I'd like more context about that...

but still, Thank you JOG, for showing me something new, but given the source, I'll remain skeptical
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: This otta go over
Reply #10 - 11/15/18 at 14:32:36
 
because NOTHING really stands alone.

Bullshit
The quotes are complete thoughts expressed clearly.
The tariffs the north dumped on the south were THE driving force.
That's something the south couldn't use in their declaration.
But, everything I'm saying
IS IN THE ARTICLE
Which either you haven't read or you're unable to understand.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
LostArtist
Ex Member




Re: This otta go over
Reply #11 - 11/15/18 at 14:58:24
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 11/15/18 at 14:32:36:
because NOTHING really stands alone.

Bullshit
The quotes are complete thoughts expressed clearly.
The tariffs the north dumped on the south were THE driving force.
That's something the south couldn't use in their declaration.
But, everything I'm saying
IS IN THE ARTICLE
Which either you haven't read or you're unable to understand.



"The tariffs the north dumped on the south were THE driving force."

um, NO

Debunking the Civil War Tariff Myth
https://imperialglobalexeter.com/2015/03/02/debunking-the-civil-war-tariff-myth/

"In debunking the tariff myth, two key points quickly illustrate how the tariff issue was far from a cause of the Civil War:

1. The tariff issue, on those rare occasions in which it was even mentioned at all, was utterly overwhelmed by the issue of slavery within the South’s own secession conventions.
2. Precisely because southern states began seceding from December 1860 onwards, a number of southern senators had resigned that could otherwise have voted against the tariff bill. Had they not resigned, they would have had enough votes in the Senate to successfully block the tariff’s congressional passage.
Screen Shot 2015-02-22 at 11.35.30

In other words, far from causing the Civil War or secession, the Morrill Tariff of March 1861 became law as a result of southern secession."


so that's the other side of your tariff BS...  so while it was a factor in the divisive culture and narrative, reality is a different story.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: This otta go over
Reply #12 - 11/15/18 at 15:16:08
 
Juan Motyme,

SINCE the government HAD the Authority to enact a TARIFF, the south COULDN'T use that to justify their secession.

So, you're saying that the New Guys who replaced the people who retired voted For a tariff?
The law that supported slavery was strengthened when the tariff went through.

You don't suppose someone is trying to keep you believing it's about slavery, do you?
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
LostArtist
Ex Member




Re: This otta go over
Reply #13 - 11/16/18 at 11:25:40
 
did you not read, or can't you understand the link that I posted???
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: This otta go over
Reply #14 - 11/16/18 at 13:06:45
 
Do you not understand that the south, by law, could NOT use the tariff as reason for secession BECAUSE, By Law, they had no argument AGAINST a tariff, BECAUSE IT WAS CONSTITUTIONAL.
That doesn't make it right, fair, not abusive, it's just NOT a legal argument.

Now, for the real point.
Lincoln didn't CARE ABOUT the slaves.


READ what He said about them and how he had no interest in raising them up to be equal with whites. You don't know WHY marriage licenses were required.
Look at when they were introduced.
Since Lincoln EXPRESSLY DECLARED he had no interest in the slavery issue, why not just allow them to secede? They had every right to.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
04/19/24 at 17:54:10



General CategoryPolitics, Religion (Tall Table) › This otta go over


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.