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AI to combat AI distributed false content (Read 79 times)
Eegore
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AI to combat AI distributed false content
09/20/18 at 11:15:03
 
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/fp_20180316_future_polit...

 A simple read that has a good outline of how some of this information is being distributed.  I know there's some doubt as to if Russia/China etc. have meddled in elections but if you look at the information as a whole there is information that is concerning, not just about this one election, but information in general.

 I for one do not think that one person can simultaneously active over 700 Twitter accounts and distribute information in 3 minutes, and I do not believe that 700 separate people used one computer as the referenced (in the article) data shows.

 So with AI analyzing our internet usage and creating waves of "news" that can be distributed at superhuman rates, we would need AI to also respond.  One AI program pushing 1.6 million social media articles in 24 hours will not be mitigated by a team over at Facebook "looking it over".
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Re: AI to combat AI distributed false content
Reply #1 - 09/20/18 at 11:47:30
 
Interesting paper Eegore - thanks!

Scary too.  I guess that's why cyber security jobs are in high demand and pay so well!

I've always said - you have to be smarter than the tools that you use.

Now more than ever.
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Re: AI to combat AI distributed false content
Reply #2 - 09/20/18 at 11:51:53
 
All true, but remember, an individual has to read the content, process it and later vote a differently based upon that content. From what I've read of the Russian ads, they were totally ineffective. Many done after the fact or targeted the wrong demographic. It had zero impact this last election.

But what if they got smart? What if they did it right? Or maybe the question is, could they do it right? Could it even be done? I have about 10 sites I visit regularly for information. To impact me, they'd have to slowly integrate themselves into those sites somehow. Would their be a way for them to 'plant' articles in www.realclearpolitics.com somehow? Wall Street Journal? St Louis Post Dispatch? How would a Russian agent feed me information in an attempt to sway my vote to one that benefits them?

Of course if we had a fair press that hadn't abdicated it's responsibility by siding with the Democratic party, that would help. But that ship has sailed.

So what do we do?  

We can't abolish social media, can we? Granted, it would be fascinating to see the social upheaval if Facebook, twitter etc... went down for an hour, a day, a week, a month.  
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Re: AI to combat AI distributed false content
Reply #3 - 09/20/18 at 12:00:31
 
Lets not forget one extremely important fact.
Whenever you are trying to sell something unsolicited, like a magazine ad, or TV, radio, as, etc.....
You have a mere few seconds to "hook" someones attention.
Just because its "out there" does not mean anybody at all, assigned any voracity to any given topic/subject.
Chances are these campaigns "hook" just as many per POV, as those of rigid mindset have set out fishing only to affirm what they already believe, NOT for enlightenment.
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Re: AI to combat AI distributed false content
Reply #4 - 09/20/18 at 12:04:25
 
WebsterMark wrote on 09/20/18 at 11:51:53:
All true, but remember, an individual has to read the content, process it and later vote a differently based upon that content. From what I've read of the Russian ads, they were totally ineffective. Many done after the fact or targeted the wrong demographic. It had zero impact this last election.

But what if they got smart? What if they did it right? Or maybe the question is, could they do it right? Could it even be done? I have about 10 sites I visit regularly for information. To impact me, they'd have to slowly integrate themselves into those sites somehow. Would their be a way for them to 'plant' articles in www.realclearpolitics.com somehow? Wall Street Journal? St Louis Post Dispatch? How would a Russian agent feed me information in an attempt to sway my vote to one that benefits them?

Of course if we had a fair press that hadn't abdicated it's responsibility by siding with the Democratic party, that would help. But that ship has sailed.

That's your opinion.  The whole "liberal media" is a fallacy.  You simply don't look far enough.  If you think the 24 hour news has much of an impact on today's youth - well, you're even further behind than I thought.

So what do we do?  

We can't abolish social media, can we? Granted, it would be fascinating to see the social upheaval if Facebook, twitter etc... went down for an hour, a day, a week, a month.  


You have to be smarter than the tools that you use.
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Re: AI to combat AI distributed false content
Reply #5 - 09/20/18 at 12:36:07
 
"Would their be a way for them to 'plant' articles in www.realclearpolitics.com somehow? Wall Street Journal? St Louis Post Dispatch? How would a Russian agent feed me information in an attempt to sway my vote to one that benefits them?"

 None of it applies to this as those are not considered social media, and as a whole is the declining demographic.  The objective isn't to plant articles exclusively to sway a direct vote, as indicated in the article and 12 of the references.

Most protests today come from social media, not website articles, social division is created faster through social media, not website articles.  Web articles are the equivalent of Reader's Digest in physical print when it comes to creating fluid social movement.

"So what do we do?"

 I thought the article laid it out rather well and proposed multiple avenues.  What part of the potential solution process do you not agree with or causes confusion on what things we can do?  Did you read it or just the title?

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Re: AI to combat AI distributed false content
Reply #6 - 09/20/18 at 12:42:31
 
"Whenever you are trying to sell something unsolicited, like a magazine ad, or TV, radio, as, etc.....
You have a mere few seconds to "hook" someones attention."


 Those aren't examples of social media and they aren't "selling" anything.  The article lays out the strategies and partially how they work, many of the references show direct pathways and usage of content and how it materializes into measurable activity.

"Chances are these campaigns "hook" just as many per POV, as those of rigid mindset have set out fishing only to affirm what they already believe, NOT for enlightenment. "

 That's an interesting outlook, but how do you explain the directly correlated results?

  A false media campaign to get people to show up to a protest of an activity that doesn't exist in X-location yields a result of 100's of people showing up at X-location.  The data clearly can be traced over the phones of the people in attendance.  That's a physical measurable result, those people read the distributed information, shared it exponentially and arrived at the location alongside others who received shared information.  That's about as much empirical evidence as one could possibly provide.
 
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Re: AI to combat AI distributed false content
Reply #7 - 09/20/18 at 13:33:25
 
Eegore wrote on 09/20/18 at 12:42:31:
"Whenever you are trying to sell something unsolicited, like a magazine ad, or TV, radio, as, etc.....
You have a mere few seconds to "hook" someones attention."


 Those aren't examples of social media and they aren't "selling" anything.  The article lays out the strategies and partially how they work, many of the references show direct pathways and usage of content and how it materializes into measurable activity.

"Chances are these campaigns "hook" just as many per POV, as those of rigid mindset have set out fishing only to affirm what they already believe, NOT for enlightenment. "

 That's an interesting outlook, but how do you explain the directly correlated results?

  A false media campaign to get people to show up to a protest of an activity that doesn't exist in X-location yields a result of 100's of people showing up at X-location.  The data clearly can be traced over the phones of the people in attendance.  That's a physical measurable result, those people read the distributed information, shared it exponentially and arrived at the location alongside others who received shared information.  That's about as much empirical evidence as one could possibly provide.
 


I will use the analogy of reasoning that IF you put enough monkeys in a room with enough typewriters.....
By shear "chance" based upon LARGE numbers, one will type/write Shakespeare.

Another example.
Since high school stuff is so important nowadays, lets use this one:

A group of people on campus talk about having a party over at so n so's house tonight, a Friday night.
Well, it starts to get tossed around, others hear of it, and before you know it, its a sure thang......
Only they forgot to inform so n so  Grin
Folks show up only to find its not.

People will believe what they WANT to believe for their OWN personal gains/satisfactions.

And finally, lets not forget the lemmings and cliff mentality.....  Grin
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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
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Re: AI to combat AI distributed false content
Reply #8 - 09/20/18 at 14:24:22
 
"I will use the analogy of reasoning that IF you put enough monkeys in a room with enough typewriters.....
By shear "chance" based upon LARGE numbers, one will type/write Shakespeare."


 Its not chance, its directed content based off millions of pieces of data collected from internet usage.  That content then is categorized and sent by AI, not a group of people, by AI in huge numbers that renders measurable and proven results because the appropriate content can be sent accurately to the most responsive people.  This is made very clear in the article and associated references.  This is not shotgun fake news, this is surgical content selection and dispersal, that renders predictable and proven results.  All of it done by automation in numbers that exceed any humans ability to produce or distribute.

"People will believe what they WANT to believe for their OWN personal gains/satisfactions."

 I agree, but that's not what the article or the associated references are talking about.  Did you read it?

 
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Re: AI to combat AI distributed false content
Reply #9 - 09/20/18 at 14:28:12
 
raydawg wrote on 09/20/18 at 13:33:25:
Eegore wrote on 09/20/18 at 12:42:31:
"Whenever you are trying to sell something unsolicited, like a magazine ad, or TV, radio, as, etc.....
You have a mere few seconds to "hook" someones attention."


 Those aren't examples of social media and they aren't "selling" anything.  The article lays out the strategies and partially how they work, many of the references show direct pathways and usage of content and how it materializes into measurable activity.

"Chances are these campaigns "hook" just as many per POV, as those of rigid mindset have set out fishing only to affirm what they already believe, NOT for enlightenment. "

 That's an interesting outlook, but how do you explain the directly correlated results?

  A false media campaign to get people to show up to a protest of an activity that doesn't exist in X-location yields a result of 100's of people showing up at X-location.  The data clearly can be traced over the phones of the people in attendance.  That's a physical measurable result, those people read the distributed information, shared it exponentially and arrived at the location alongside others who received shared information.  That's about as much empirical evidence as one could possibly provide.
 


I will use the analogy of reasoning that IF you put enough monkeys in a room with enough typewriters.....
By shear "chance" based upon LARGE numbers, one will type/write Shakespeare.

Another example.
Since high school stuff is so important nowadays, lets use this one:

A group of people on campus talk about having a party over at so n so's house tonight, a Friday night.
Well, it starts to get tossed around, others hear of it, and before you know it, its a sure thang......
Only they forgot to inform so n so  Grin
Folks show up only to find its not.

People will believe what they WANT to believe for their OWN personal gains/satisfactions.

And finally, lets not forget the lemmings and cliff mentality.....  Grin


Not to speak for Eegore, but (IMHO) that's not even close to what the gist of the paper is ray.  I don't think you get it.

It's not merely conjecture, there are actual findings.

If you plan to infiltrate a social media platform like Facebook with roughly 1.7 billion unique users, you don't target at random.

This is highly skilled, targeted political warfare.

Our tools are barely keeping up and the "bad guys" are gaining ground quick.

In 2016, they were able to reach about 150 million people with precise, targeted messages at a very low cost.

No, it's not in favor of trump per se, but that's not really the aim - it's disruption.  They are only interested in creating chaos, infighting and indecision.

The point is, we need to take some of that money spent on the military and start putting it towards Cyber intelligence and security.

That's where the next "great war" could be.
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Re: AI to combat AI distributed false content
Reply #10 - 09/20/18 at 14:35:47
 
WebsterMark wrote on 09/20/18 at 11:51:53:
"... it would be fascinating to see the social upheaval if Facebook, twitter etc... went down for an hour, a day, a week, a month.

Great thought, however the resulting effects could be disastrous.

Cities with Skyways, will have massive flooding in the skyways.
Automobile accidents spiking, as people are 'fiddling' more than they are use to.
Designer pubs and micro breweries across the USA, will loose business, as most of their customers are not able to function.
IKEA Stores will have a massive decline in sales, as their is no way to look at pictures on the internet, on how to assemble  their products.
State/Federal Parks will see a huge decline in attendance.
And a lot more,
due to the fact that a part of the population simply cannot function, with out FB/Twitter.

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: AI to combat AI distributed false content
Reply #11 - 09/20/18 at 14:55:58
 
The INTERNET has the capacity to deliver more information faster to more people than any other technology.
Even the power source for access is beyond any regulating agencies abilities to "tax" it.
My referencing was in relationship to the vast numbers of folks it can reach, and within those numbers, you will have those factions that you could prolly always count on acting a certain way.
Folks will always try and game the system to their advantage, that leads to all sorts of technological advances as well.
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Re: AI to combat AI distributed false content
Reply #12 - 09/20/18 at 15:16:46
 
So I guess only Eegore and I actually read the paper.  Talk about non-sequitur posts...

(To be fair, I didn't read the entire thing - yet.)
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Re: AI to combat AI distributed false content
Reply #13 - 09/20/18 at 17:13:15
 
"Would their be a way for them to 'plant' articles in www.realclearpolitics.com somehow? Wall Street Journal? St Louis Post Dispatch? How would a Russian agent feed me information in an attempt to sway my vote to one that benefits them?"

None of it applies to this as those are not considered social media, and as a whole is the declining demographic.  The objective isn't to plant articles exclusively to sway a direct vote, as indicated in the article and 12 of the references.

Most protests today come from social media, not website articles, social division is created faster through social media, not website articles.  Web articles are the equivalent of Reader's Digest in physical print when it comes to creating fluid social movement.

"So what do we do?"

I thought the article laid it out rather well and proposed multiple avenues.  What part of the potential solution process do you not agree with or causes confusion on what things we can do?  Did you read it or just the title?


No, i was working and read the title and a few paragraphs quickly.

But heres a question; how many people "on the bubble" of an issue, go to a protest march on a topic they're not sure which side they come down on?  

I recall reading one of Russian Facebook ads was calling for a march against Hilary. Who would go to that if they weren't already fairly cemented in their position? Is the article suggesting a strategy like that produces changes in vote totals targeted specifically to change Electoral Vote totals? That seems unlikely.
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Re: AI to combat AI distributed false content
Reply #14 - 09/20/18 at 18:45:45
 
"Is the article suggesting a strategy like that produces changes in vote totals targeted specifically to change Electoral Vote totals?"

 Not really but the section on voting, voting machines, election tampering and big data deals with the concepts and outcomes.  Some of the references would clarify it for you.

"I recall reading one of Russian Facebook ads was calling for a march against Hilary. Who would go to that if they weren't already fairly cemented in their position?"

 That's a good point but not what the article is about.
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