SuzukiSavage.com - Engine stuck at high idle/sounds fine once in 3rd

Castheandra

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Engine stuck at high idle/sounds fine once in 3rd
08/28/18 at 07:36:55

I'm at a crossroads with my savage at moment 😭

93, stock exhaust + air pod + currently running 155main 55 pilot + raptor PC

Recently had valves checked+ adjusted 3 weeks ago. Bike seemed to run great for those 3 weeks...was riding daily. Then my last few rides I was lacking power & the bike would stay at a high idle when gearing down OR anytime I pulled the clutch in. At first I thought was maybe my throttle was getting stuck but I've thoroughly taken this apart and cleaned it, everything looks & feels good! Bike still giving me the same issue when I went for a test ride and if I tap the carb it'll settle down again...or if I go full throttle (it'll give off some black smoke) but as soon as I start riding, it hangs at high idle again.

This morning I changed the oil, and filter (yes it smelled like gas so I assume something is getting stuck open?) , Changed my sparkplug and took apart the carb, thoroughly cleaned that all up & then reassembled the bike....went on test ride & no changes Sad

I recently replaced the float needle + seat & the choke & my jets are brand new as well. My air adjustment screw doesn't seem to be working (turned all the way in doesn't kill the bike) so I'm wondering if this is my issue or would it be my needle slide getting stuck?? Needle slide is expensive so I'm worried to jump on replacing that.

Or would this be an outcome of my valves needing to be readjusted again? (Note, the person who did my valves did not check the header bolts, as someone told me this is an important thing to do on the savage)

I do the work myself and I still consider myself a newbie at this bike stuff. Any advice would be awesome!

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GOF Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 216 Buffalo, NY	Re: Engine stuck at high idle/sounds fine once in Reply #1 - 08/28/18 at 07:43:07 I would take another look at what you have done in the carb. Is everything installed and adjusted properly?
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Castheandra YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 34 Ottawa, Ontario Gender:	Re: Engine stuck at high idle/sounds fine once in Reply #2 - 08/28/18 at 07:56:50 As far as I can tell it's adjusted properly....it's about the 8th time I've dug into this carb, it worked rounds 1-6 (haha) so I don't think I'm missing anything....but maybe I am?
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Re: Engine stuck at high idle/sounds fine once in
Reply #3 - 08/28/18 at 08:19:42

Castheandra wrote on 08/28/18 at 07:36:55:

Recently had valves checked+ adjusted 3 weeks ago. Bike seemed to run great for those 3 weeks...was riding daily. Then my last few rides I was lacking power & the bike would stay at a high idle when gearing down OR anytime I pulled the clutch in. At first I thought was maybe my throttle was getting stuck but I've thoroughly taken this apart and cleaned it, everything looks & feels good! Bike still giving me the same issue when I went for a test ride and if I tap the carb it'll settle down again...or if I go full throttle (it'll give off some black smoke) but as soon as I start riding, it hangs at high idle again.

I recently replaced the float needle + seat & the choke & my jets are brand new as well. My air adjustment screw doesn't seem to be working (turned all the way in doesn't kill the bike) so I'm wondering if this is my issue or would it be my needle slide getting stuck?? Needle slide is expensive so I'm worried to jump on replacing that.

Tapping the side of the carb and dropping the idle speed makes me think you have a sticking slide.
Mine was getting stuck at a low position and wasn't resolved until I added fuel injector treatment to the tank. Otherwise it's constantly getting stuck.

Your idle speed may be too high for testing. Lower it for the adjustment, then return it to 1000 to 1100 rpm after.

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ohiomoto

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Re: Engine stuck at high idle/sounds fine once in
Reply #4 - 08/28/18 at 08:31:11

Your slide is most certainly getting stuck. Is it showing any wear at all?

I've found that even when they feel good on the bench, they might be hanging up. On the bench, the slide had no air flow passing through the venturi. When the engine is running, it's being wedged forward by air flow. I replaced mine and it was the best $120 I've spent. Saved me a lot of mucking around.

Also, 155/55 jetting is really rich IMO.

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Gary_in_NJ

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Re: Engine stuck at high idle/sounds fine once in
Reply #5 - 08/28/18 at 09:28:38

While you're checking things...

A run away idle that settles down with throttle is a symptom of a vacuum leak. Take a good look at the boot between the carb and the head. Your are looking for cracks, an air gap or other problems. If you don't see anything, with the bike doing its run-away idle thing, spray the carb boot with carb cleaner and see if the idle (briefly) returns to normal. That's the tell-tail sign of a vacuum leak.

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Re: Engine stuck at high idle/sounds fine once in
Reply #6 - 08/28/18 at 12:59:28

Do you have a Raptor petcock/ (if not I'd get one)extra fuel could be flowing down the vacuum line .
Did you reassemble the carb properly? the slide could well be hanging up , but why?
1) The slide and bore it goes into need to be perfectly clean (don't even touch them on reassembly- and never try to use any lubricant ).
2) Their are two vacuum ports in the bottom of the side ( two small holes) which you should be able to see light through , they can be plugged by placing the brass plate that holds the needle in back ward , and the plate has a dimple near the needle that must protrude downward when reassembled .
Either of of these could cause the slide to malfunction.

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Castheandra

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Re: Engine stuck at high idle/sounds fine once in
Reply #7 - 08/28/18 at 13:33:39

batman wrote on 08/28/18 at 12:59:28:

Do you have a Raptor petcock/ (if not I'd get one)extra fuel could be flowing down the vacuum line .
Did you reassemble the carb properly? the slide could well be hanging up , but why?
1) The slide and bore it goes into need to be perfectly clean (don't even touch them on reassembly- and never try to use any lubricant ).
2) Their are two vacuum ports in the bottom of the side ( two small holes) which you should be able to see light through , they can be plugged by placing the brass plate that holds the needle in back ward , and the plate has a dimple near the needle that must protrude downward when reassembled .
Either of of these could cause the slide to malfunction.

Yes I do have the Raptor PC.

I made sure every hole/port had air coming through before reassembly.

I didn't take apart the needle from the slide-its the only part of the carb I didn't take apart... so it's the same as when the bike was in running condition.

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Castheandra YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 34 Ottawa, Ontario Gender:	Re: Engine stuck at high idle/sounds fine once in Reply #8 - 08/28/18 at 13:37:58 Ok.... definitely seems like it's my slide getting hung up. 😬 Going to try out a few things that y'all suggested and see where it takes me....which will probably be to the dealership for a new slide hahaha
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batman Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3806 osceola new york Gender:	Re: Engine stuck at high idle/sounds fine once in Reply #9 - 08/28/18 at 14:52:28 Is your pod air filter new? some of these have rubber mounting flanges that have been known to block air passages in the throat of the carb ,which will also inhibit slide movement.
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Castheandra YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 34 Ottawa, Ontario Gender:	Re: Engine stuck at high idle/sounds fine once in Reply #10 - 08/28/18 at 15:20:13 Fairly new, but I always cut out a space in the flange/rubber and line it up with the vent on the carb!
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Re: Engine stuck at high idle/sounds fine once in
Reply #11 - 08/28/18 at 15:48:09

The I assume your talking about the slot at the top (12 O'CLOCK ) ,but If you have to cut a relief for that ,you may be forgetting the small air jet opening at 5 O'clock , that supplies air to the idle jet circuit . If this is also plugged it will vastly increase the fuel flow through the pilot jet (increasing idle speed and may delay the slide dropping) .I would try removing the air filter just to check if your problem subsides.
I would also state that that your choice of jets seems a bit outrageous for a stock bike even at your elevation. Your jets may be trying to over compensate for the fact that you haven't done the spacer mod, and you NEED to!( 2- # 4 steel washers for your 217 ft. elevation) I would do that first and try to reduce jet sizes ,as they may be to large running a stock muffler. Flow needs to be balanced ,the motor can only breath in what it can exhaust -the stock muffler is fairly restrictive, even if your cone filter isn't.

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« Last Edit: 08/29/18 at 08:13:41 by batman »

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Castheandra

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Re: Engine stuck at high idle/sounds fine once in
Reply #12 - 08/29/18 at 08:10:48

batman wrote on 08/28/18 at 15:48:09:

The I assume your talking about the slot at the top (12 O'CLOCK ) ,but If you have to cut a relief for that ,you may be forgetting the small air jet opening at 5 O'clock , that supplies air to the idle jet circuit . If this is also plugged it will vastly increase the fuel flow through the pilot jet (increasing idle speed and may delay the slide dropping) .I would try removing the air filter just to check if your problem subsides.
I would also state that that your choice of jets seems a bit outrageous for a stock bike even at your elevation. Your jets may be trying to over compensate for the fact that you haven't done the spacer mod,( 2- # 4 steel washers for your 217 ft. elevation) I would do that first and try to reduce jet sizes ,as they may be to large running a stock muffler. Flow needs to be balanced ,the motor can only breath in what it can exhaust -the stock muffler is fairly restrictive, even if your cone filter isn't.

Ok thanks so much for the advice and I shall take it! Working on it this afternoon 🍻.

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Re: Engine stuck at high idle/sounds fine once in
Reply #13 - 08/29/18 at 16:59:40

Air controls the idle speed. If your throttle plate is fully closed and the idle speed is running away, the engine is getting additional air from somewhere. In addition, your jets are too large for a stock engine. So now you have additional air along with additional fuel. Wham! Runaway idle.

The slide shouldn't make the bike idle any faster since the throttle plate is what controls air flow. Make very sure your throttle plate is closing. I'm with Gary in NJ, sound like an air leak to me. Most likely the rubber manifold.

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Re: Engine stuck at high idle/sounds fine once in
Reply #14 - 08/29/18 at 20:47:41

DBM the throttle plate is never fully closed, it is cracked open even at idle (if you don't think so back your idle speed screw out all the way and watch your bike die) , and it provides added air when released by virtue of the increased vacuum it causes down stream and therefore increased air velocity through the opening . At the same time the fuel ratio is going lean because the spacer mod has not been done( bike is only 200ft above sea level) ,this may well tend to increase rather than slow rpm ( a slightly lean condition produces more power)
how many Savages will run at sea level with the stock spacer? how many have had intake air leaks?

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