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if its free, its pretty useless..... (Read 237 times)
raydawg
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if its free, its pretty useless.....
08/08/18 at 09:45:02
 
Ever notice when folks get free stuff, they don't take care of it?

I recall, as a contractor in California, how neighborhoods sank into despair, as HUD moved more folks in.

The problem was, is that in these neighborhoods, lots of "first time buyers" had worked, saved, and were able to get into the game, only to watch their hard work dissipate, as the area eroded into crime and ugliness.

Landscape was neglected, cars just left broken down, no pride of owning a home, etc.

It was often folks on fixed incomes too, who got caught in this program.
Hoping to "cash out" in retirement, they lost, as they put much of their future into believing they could profit at the end.
I saw this over, and over again, as I provided plumbing services in Southern California....
Service companies did not want to work in these neighborhoods, it wasn't safe, and prices reflected the risk.
So not only was your home worth less, it cost more to maintain it, as well, because of the blight.
If you recall, I think insurance companies got called out on this, charging folks within that neighborhood more premiums, for the same coverage, just a few miles away, I think it was called "red lining."  

I noticed too, many on goverment supplied healthcare, were fat, smokers, and appeared to live a lifestyle that cared not, about the financial cost of living as such.....

I have to believe its because they didn't pay any (financial) burdens.....

Of course, this was not the same in every case, but the numbers were substantial.

If the goverment is going to provide programs, then need to try and ensure they do good, not further the problem, by creating more dependency, and fostering a lifestyle that hurts EVERYONE.

Thinking if only the government will provide a national healthcare system, and the problem is fixed, really is shortsighted, and a disservice, just like HUD was, for so many reasons.

Some type of accountability, and goal, of weaning folks off of programs, should be a very important component to any support, or subsidies.....

For example: A otherwise healthy individual is on welfare. They are obese, and that is the "excuse" as to why thy can't work, and of their diabetes.....

We should start with a base line support structure, and then as they "improve" on the things they CAN, like losing weight, exercise, stop smoking, drinking, better eating habits, etc.....

REWARD them with MORE support, like positive affirmation.

I believe if even 10% of the recipients accessed this chance, the savings would prove themselves out, and we would soon have a healthy crop of independent folks who would be a asset, instead of a liability, to society.

The AA program is a fine example how folks turn their lives around.
It eventually is up to each one of us to realize our own worth, in life.
But most of us, a VAST majority, need help, and support, from others, in achieving it....
Be it a sponsor in AA, or a caring teacher, in public school.

I saw this the other day.....
It blew me away.
I hope you find the value in it too.    

Watch your thoughts, they become words.

Watch your words, they become actions.

Watch your actions, they become your habits.

Watch your habits, they become your character.

Watch your character........

It becomes your destiny.


Peace all, dawg out  Smiley
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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
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LostArtist
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Re: if its free, its pretty useless.....
Reply #1 - 08/08/18 at 11:10:53
 
I like that, yeah the biggest problem with our "welfare" is that it doesn't do enough to encourage personal improvement and responsibility, it just punishes...
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raydawg
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Re: if its free, its pretty useless.....
Reply #2 - 08/08/18 at 11:26:43
 
LostArtist wrote on 08/08/18 at 11:10:53:
I like that, yeah the biggest problem with our "welfare" is that it doesn't do enough to encourage personal improvement and responsibility, it just punishes...


Thank you  Smiley
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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
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MnSpring
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Younger than most
people my age.

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Re: if its free, its pretty useless.....
Reply #3 - 08/08/18 at 12:29:42
 
LostArtist wrote on 08/08/18 at 11:10:53:
I like that, yeah the biggest problem with our "welfare" is that it doesn't do enough to encourage personal improvement and responsibility, it just punishes...

That's probably the most Logical thing you have posted here.

Yet be careful,  ’someone’ may say:
“Well That’s Racist” !
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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Eegore
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Re: if its free, its pretty useless.....
Reply #4 - 08/08/18 at 14:29:36
 
 "Thinking if only the government will provide a national healthcare system, and the problem is fixed, really is shortsighted, and a disservice, just like HUD was, for so many reasons."

 What you discuss is part of the problem.  Another major issue with healthcare is the lack of imminence for many of the health problems that arise and then become financial burden.  

 Heart disease for a 20 year old is not imminent enough, in most cases,  to make them want to take care of their cardiovascular system.  It's hard enough to get them to wear a helmet, things like arthritis just aren't in the forefront.  The lack of desire to be healthier in these cases aren't from the same psychological position as people staying on welfare because it pays more than a job in their area.

 Its complacency, but for two totally different reasons.

 I believe including imminence assessment by age and other factors into the psychological components of any empowering-based healthcare process would improve the program.
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raydawg
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Re: if its free, its pretty useless.....
Reply #5 - 08/08/18 at 14:49:51
 
Could you please elaborate on that.
Not sure exactly what you mean.

BTW, I believe Michele Obama was maybe thinking along these lines when she “tried” to take nutrition to a national interest.
However, perhaps it never got traction because of partisan and “fast food” opposition....???
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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: if its free, its pretty useless.....
Reply #6 - 08/08/18 at 16:08:08
 
The less responsibility for their own futures people experience, the less likely they are to be responsible in their behaviors.

ven If Safety ...
https://www.medicaldaily.com/helmet-risk-taking-370992
Wearing a helmet is likely to increase our sensation-seeking and risk-taking, ... Increases Risk-Taking, Even If Safety Gear ... safety equipment might ...

Wearing a Bicycle Helmet Can Increase Risk Taking and ...
journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0956797615620784
Humans adapt their risk-taking behavior on the basis of perceptions of safety; this risk-compensation phenomenon is typified by people taking increased risks when using protective equipment.

Risk compensation - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation
Risk compensation is a theory which suggests ... oppose the requirement of safety equipment on trains ... to increased perceived danger by taking ...

Overview · Examples
RISK TAKING - UNITED Equipment Dealers Association
https://www.omeda.org/safety/safetyvault/SMNS_Risk Taking.htm
A safety meeting in a nutshell. RISK TAKING. Note to the Discussion Leader: This safety talk is designed to increase employees' awareness of the potential dangers involved with risk taking, and to determine why we take these risks.

Helmet wearing increases risk taking and sensation seeking ...
www.bath.ac.uk/research/news/2016/01/25/helmet-wearing-risk-taking
Helmet wearing increases risk taking and sensation seeking. Could helmet wearing increase risk taking and ... consequences of safety equipment in hazardous ...


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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Eegore
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Re: if its free, its pretty useless.....
Reply #7 - 08/08/18 at 17:03:48
 
"Could you please elaborate on that.
Not sure exactly what you mean."


 Universal healthcare could be a problem in the same capacity that HUD has.  Free homes = people don't take care of them.  Free healthcare = people don't take care of themselves.

 Also people don't take care of themselves because many health problems are so far away in time by their perspective.  Free healthcare = people still don't care about health risks that are 40 years away.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: if its free, its pretty useless.....
Reply #8 - 08/08/18 at 17:50:00
 
And?
What is the answer?
Not many people get out of here alive..
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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raydawg
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Re: if its free, its pretty useless.....
Reply #9 - 08/08/18 at 18:46:09
 
Eegore wrote on 08/08/18 at 17:03:48:
"Could you please elaborate on that.
Not sure exactly what you mean."


 Universal healthcare could be a problem in the same capacity that HUD has.  Free homes = people don't take care of them.  Free healthcare = people don't take care of themselves.

 Also people don't take care of themselves because many health problems are so far away in time by their perspective.  Free healthcare = people still don't care about health risks that are 40 years away.


OK, gotcha.....
For some reason I thought you were talking about risk, and exposure, with the younger population, and it needed to be factored in, when deciding cost, or allowances, of coverage.
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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
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Eegore
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Re: if its free, its pretty useless.....
Reply #10 - 08/08/18 at 19:53:19
 

 No I was just using youth as an example.  As in younger people don't even wear helmets, and concussion risk is very imminent.  When looking 30 - 40 years ahead its going to be even harder.

 So free healthcare has the HUD style factor, and also the "I will worry about it later" factor.  Homes not so much, they were never going to take care of that free home from day one.
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Re: if its free, its pretty useless.....
Reply #11 - 08/08/18 at 19:58:53
 
"And?
What is the answer?
Not many people get out of here alive.. "


 I don't believe there is any one answer for healthcare anywhere, but I do not think an empowering based approach, as presented in the original post, will address the fact that many people just don't care about their health until it starts failing.  

 Factoring that part will be part education and part just creating the budget to handle the future mandatory treatment that universal healthcare would need to take care of.  People typically don't care about arthritis or taking steps to prevent it prior to showing any symptoms, and if that's not factored into the budget then there wont be money to provide treatment.

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justin_o_guy2
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Re: if its free, its pretty useless.....
Reply #12 - 08/08/18 at 20:21:47
 
Just because you can
Envision a wonderful world
That doesn't mean it's possible to change human nature.
When you see people starting on the term paper the day it was assigned, then you can start to hope people will be wise and prepare for the future.
They will be careful, eat right, see the dentist, sell their bikes, stop people from jumping out of airplanes, no more scuba, no mountain climbing,
Good God,
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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raydawg
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Re: if its free, its pretty useless.....
Reply #13 - 08/08/18 at 21:08:13
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 08/08/18 at 20:21:47:
Just because you can
Envision a wonderful world
That doesn't mean it's possible to change human nature.
When you see people starting on the term paper the day it was assigned, then you can start to hope people will be wise and prepare for the future.
They will be careful, eat right, see the dentist, sell their bikes, stop people from jumping out of airplanes, no more scuba, no mountain climbing,
Good God,


No football?

You think all the lawsuits are just a means to kill this sport of wealthy owners, or?
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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
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Re: if its free, its pretty useless.....
Reply #14 - 08/09/18 at 05:52:58
 
"They will be careful, eat right, see the dentist, sell their bikes, stop people from jumping out of airplanes, no more scuba, no mountain climbing,
Good God,"


 Who mentioned anything, in this thread exclusively, as in only in this thread, that people are, will, should or have tried to stop people from jumping out of airplanes as part of universal healthcare planning?
 
 There has never to my knowledge been any mention of illegalizing hobbies as a form of healthcare.  Pre-planning for treating arthritis in an aging population has nothing to do with scuba diving.  The budget and resources needed to lobby for laws that will not even be enforceable is definitely not something healthcare providers are looking to do.
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