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LostArtist

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MAGA!
07/06/18 at 13:20:13

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/395452-not-so-proud-to-be-an-american

Not so proud to be an American

A new national Gallup poll indicates the number of Americans who are extremely proud of the United States has dropped since Trump became president. Like many aspects of his presidency, Trump has taken a bad situation and made it even worse.

Less than half (47 percent) of the American people say they are extremely proud of the United States. This represents a decline from 51 percent in the first year of Trump’s presidency.

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faffi

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Re: MAGA!
Reply #1 - 07/07/18 at 04:58:01

Not living in America, my vote doesn't count for anything. But I can state that Trump's popularity is rather slim in Europe, although - like in America - people tend to be very pro or very anti when it comes to your President. Few seem to be neutral towards him.

That said, I am not sure if polls like these will make any difference, or what they are meant to reveal. In 2003, 70 % of people in USA were extremely proud to be Americans, now the number have dropped to 47. However, 74 % of the Republicans are still extremely proud to be Americans. So the poll only tells us what is already known; Trump is a disruptive leader, not a unifying leader. So it is only natural that emotions will be stronger for or against him. And since the President is the greatest representative for the country, when you are ashamed of your highest leader, it is difficult to be extremely proud of your country.

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LostArtist Ex Member	Re: MAGA! Reply #2 - 07/07/18 at 06:48:42 greeting faffi, always good to get an outside perspective
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: MAGA! Reply #3 - 07/07/18 at 10:10:14 since the President is the greatest representative for the country, when you are ashamed of your highest leader, it is difficult to be extremely proud of your country. Back to top Bushes,Clinton, Obama Yeah, ashamed Trump Im happy
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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28362 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: MAGA! Reply #4 - 07/07/18 at 11:19:16 justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/07/18 at 10:10:14: Trump Im happy You wear your racism so well...
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faffi

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Re: MAGA!
Reply #5 - 07/07/18 at 11:38:12

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/07/18 at 10:10:14:
since the President is the greatest representative for the country, when you are ashamed of your highest leader, it is difficult to be extremely proud of your country.
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Bushes,Clinton, Obama
Yeah, ashamed

Trump
Im happy

Of course, you are fully entitled to be supportive of Trump and not of the others.

For the record, Clinton and Obama were both highly regarded by the majority on this planet, while Bush jr. and to much greater degree Trump have not received much positive press. But the masses does not hold the only answer, each must make up their own mind.

One very interesting aspect that I have noticed is the quite often blind condemnation or praise of Presidents. Not that this is apparent in this post, but as said often the case.

I have no respect for people (on topic, not in general) who think that President X is/was all bad and President Y is/was all good. Such hate/blind support simply holds no merit. Every single President have had many good and many less good sides and decisions. No exception. How good/bad one see each overall will depend on whether they go with you or against your own opinions - if you cannot see beyond your own egotistical wants - but once a person fail to give a balanced judgement with arguments for why, their opinions have zero credibility or validity.

Give credit where credit is due. Then it is possible to have a discussion Wink

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Eegore

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Re: MAGA!
Reply #6 - 07/07/18 at 12:48:13

"I have no respect for people (on topic, not in general) who think that President X is/was all bad and President Y is/was all good. Such hate/blind support simply holds no merit. "

I agree. This idea that nobody ever criticized Obama is ridiculous, I heard negative publicity about "Obamacare" literally every day. I remember how horrible Clinton was, and how a lot of world leaders wished a b low job was the worst of their worries. Bush Jr. was made fun of nightly on TV, so much it got really old, but for some reason none of that happened now because with Trump its worse.

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faffi Senior Member Offline A.S.A.N. Posts: 327 Norway	Re: MAGA! Reply #7 - 07/07/18 at 12:52:24 Well put.
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MnSpring

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Re: MAGA!
Reply #8 - 07/07/18 at 15:06:02

Serowbot wrote on 07/07/18 at 11:19:16:

You wear your racism so well...

WOW,

Just being right of center, is Racist.
Just having the hint of, conservative ideas, is Racist.
Just supporting a thing the current POTUS has done, is Racist.
(and or a ’Nazi’)

And Now.
Being Proud of the Country one lives in.
Proud to be a American.

That is now, Also, Raciest !!!!!

I have a question, When I get up in the morning, I put my pants on, one leg at a time.
Now, should I put the Right leg in first, or the Left leg in first ?

Most Certainly don’t want to be called, Racist, putting on my pants,
because I am not doing it, the SAME way, as a a ultra-Liberal.

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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hotrod Senior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 326 NC Gender:	Re: MAGA! Reply #9 - 07/07/18 at 16:42:44 I'm 66 years old and a white guy. Most of my life was spent in the Bronx NY. I prefer to be around white people. Call me a racist all day long. This decision was made based on experience and observation.
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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 12828 Gender:	Re: MAGA! Reply #10 - 07/08/18 at 04:58:42 As a white man, you can't say that. As a black man, you could. That's a 100% accurate statement that can speak volumes on one side or the other.
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MnSpring Serious Thumper Offline Younger than most people my age. Posts: 8985 Minn Gender:	Re: MAGA! Reply #11 - 07/08/18 at 09:20:19 In now knowing, what is a, ‘Racist’ person. (Being that a person who is proud of this Country, Is s ‘Racist’) Let me add this! https://me.me/t/liberal-logic-101
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faffi

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Re: MAGA!
Reply #12 - 07/08/18 at 12:11:58

hotrod wrote on 07/07/18 at 16:42:44:

I'm 66 years old and a white guy. Most of my life was spent in the Bronx NY. I prefer to be around white people. Call me a racist all day long. This decision was made based on experience and observation.

This is a statement that to me is very easy to accept. I do not consider it racist. Racism is making different regulations, laws and opportunities for people depending on their skin color, belief, sexual preferences etc. So if you tried to deny blacks access to the local pub or keep sections of the city off limit for anybody not white, you would be a racist by my (simplistic) definition.

Personally, I try to judge each person as an individual. There are motorcycle addicts I cannot stand because I find them intolerable, and there are people against motorcycles that I still hold in high regards because they are good people who just happen to have a different view than me about my passion. So I do not care about the color of your skin or your (lack of) religion or your choice of vehicle - all I care about is that you have a fairly open mind and have the ability to disagree without getting worked up.

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MnSpring

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Re: MAGA!
Reply #13 - 07/08/18 at 13:22:27

faffi wrote on 07/07/18 at 11:38:12:

"... I have no respect for people (on topic, not in general) who think that President X is/was all bad and President Y is/was all good. Such hate/blind support simply holds no merit. Every single President have had many good and many less good sides and decisions. No exception. How good/bad one see each overall will depend on whether they go with you or against your own opinions - if you cannot see beyond your own egotistical wants - but once a person fail to give a balanced judgement with arguments for why, their opinions have zero credibility or validity. Give credit where credit is due. Then it is possible to have a discussion

Just for some that may not know. If Bernie Sanders, was campaigning for a spot in Norway, he, by Norway’s standards, would be considered a Conservative, Far Right of Center. (Personal Taxes are as much as Twice that of the US. And the Very Few, business, that are NOT owned by the the State, can be taxed as high as 70%)

Norway, is very Beautiful county, (but Hugely Expensive, like Denmark & Sweden).
Their is a connection between Norway, (well the Scandinavian area) and Minn. The Kensington Runestone.
Their was a, ‘reported’, visit to Western MN, in 1300’s by Paul Knutson, who was looking for a vineyard/colony , established by Leif Erickson. In 2001, another study, (Opinion), said it was a boundary marker for territory given to the Celts and Templars by the Portuguese. and the stone was put in place in 1519.
Which is it, don’t know, just fun to talk about.

“…I have no respect for people (on topic, not in general) who think that President X is/was all bad and President Y is/was all good. Such hate/blind support simply holds no merit….”

With that in mind, wondering how your manifesto above, meshes with your below statements ?
“…regardless of what he gets done, how is it possible to support a notorious liar and a person that changes his mind about as often as he changes underwear?…”
“…Or has he had the same effect on his supporters that crazy priests have over their crowd, meaning people just follow blindly without ever asking the important questions?…”

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1530908737 (Post #2)

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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faffi

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Re: MAGA!
Reply #14 - 07/08/18 at 14:18:41

On Trump:

Obviously subjective, but I stand by it because A) it is proven that he lies AND change his opinion very frequently, and B) I do not understand the blind support many give him. By that I mean not seeing any faults in him and thinking he is basically all good. Obviously, others feel differently, but I cannot respect them for it. I can accept it, but not respect it, because it is too far off the rationale. Note that I have no problem respecting people who support Trump as long as they understand he - like every human - has good as well as bad qualities.

It would be the very same regardless of what person we discuss, not just Trump. I don't think anybody only does bad things (or good things), but some may have a poor ratio between the two. Again, what is bad - or good - will of course vary from one individual to the next, which is why there are few (of any) absolute truths or rights.

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