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Gun sign implementation at a medical center (Read 370 times)
Eegore
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Re: Gun sign implementation at a medical center
Reply #15 - 07/10/18 at 11:23:47
 
 "The, ‘opinions/meeting transcripts’ you are going to send, say, a sign works, (or was it, they don’t work),"

 I am not sure how to make it more clear that the signs were not implemented to increase safety.  They do not work to increase safety or deter crime.  The capacity for a sign to assist in any way with the safety of staff or people onboard is 0% and this is the perception of staff who approved the signage to be placed on property.

 In no way are no-firearm signs expected to work.  The signs ability to be effective in the directive posted on them is 0%.

 If you want the names of the people on the transcripts I will have to submit permission of distribution requests to all individuals in the transcripts.  This could take months but if you need the names I can make those requests.
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Re: Gun sign implementation at a medical center
Reply #16 - 07/10/18 at 12:03:06
 
Eegore wrote on 07/10/18 at 11:23:47:
 "The, ‘opinions/meeting transcripts’ you are going to send, say, a sign works, (or was it, they don’t work),"  I am not sure how to make it more clear that the signs were not implemented to increase safety.  They do not work to increase safety or deter crime.  The capacity for a sign to assist in any way with the safety of staff or people onboard is 0% and this is the perception of staff who approved the signage to be placed on property.  In no way are no-firearm signs expected to work.  The signs ability to be effective in the directive posted on them is 0%.
 If you want the names of the people on the transcripts I will have to submit permission of distribution requests to all individuals in the transcripts.  This could take months but if you need the names I can make those requests.


Interesting, you have interrupted my saying:
“… (eliminating names of people, totally expected)…”


To mean, “… If you want the names of the people on the transcripts …”

How exactly did you do that ?

This: “…the signs were not implemented to increase safety….”

Perhaps in those, ‘opinions/meeting transcripts’ you are going to send, I will find the reason that, while they all said, a sign would not work, to stop, ’Bad’ guys/gals with a gun. They decided to put up the signs anyway.

Wondering if the reason was, to, stop the, Good, Guys/Gals, with a gun, from working their !

But I will have more insight, after reading the ‘opinions/meeting transcripts’ you are going to send.
And Yes, I believe it is perfectly OK to cross any name of a person who appears on that transcript you are going to send.
Just to make it perfectly clear.


You said: “…I can send you a copy of the EIC meeting transcript that has statements from all administrative staff that chose to comment on the issue.  The names would have to be redacted and it will take about two weeks to gain the appropriate permissions….”
Then in another post: “… If you want the names of the people on the transcripts I will have to submit permission of distribution requests to all individuals in the transcripts.  This could take months but if you need the names I can make those requests….”
(Which, having the names, I NEVER asked for, yet out of the blue, you said I did.)
And NOW, a  PM,  about ‘more’ information, where I am to Call a ’security’ officer ?

Just do, what you said you will do.  send the  ‘opinions/meeting transcripts’  with the names of people crossed off.

Ya know, years ago, remember a saying,
 "Put up or .... .."  Do you remember that last part ?  


Ya know I still have that Double Blade Paddle, ya sure you don’t want it ?


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Re: Gun sign implementation at a medical center
Reply #17 - 07/10/18 at 15:09:13
 
"(Which, having the names, I NEVER asked for, yet out of the blue, you said I did.)"

 I did not say you asked for names.  I asked if you wanted them.

 This was in response from a question asking:

"OK, I would like to see that, “… factual data  …”  where can I get a copy of it ?"

 What is being offered is an amended transcript of a meeting, however how can this be verified?  You would need to contact the people involved to verify their presence, and statements, but we need their permission to start this process.

 The initial contact for this information is security and archives, then public relations.  I offered to expedite this process by allowing you direct contact with the staff that would be involved, if you do not wish to do that I understand.

 Even if the position of staff was to use signage to force staff members to leave it would still not change the fact that the signs were never meant to reduce crime or increase safety.  The very thing that this topic is supposed to be about.
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Re: Gun sign implementation at a medical center
Reply #18 - 07/10/18 at 17:02:07
 
Eegore wrote on 07/10/18 at 15:09:13:
"...  What is being offered is an amended transcript of a meeting, ..."

In about 2 weeks,

When I ask you to deliver what you said you would,
“…I can send you a copy of the EIC meeting transcript that has statements from all administrative staff that chose to comment on the issue.  The names would have to be redacted and it will take about two weeks to gain the appropriate permissions.
There is also a transcript of a brief section of a longer meeting with FEMA that touches on the subject for Joint Commission review, names would be redacted and only the section addressing facility signage would be made available…”


You can come up with a fourth excuse why you can’t.

And no, a, “… amended transcript of a meeting,…”, is not at all acceptable.
As it is, NOT, what you said: “I can send you a copy of the EIC meeting transcript that has statements…”

Now to be precise. ‘Amended’ as to, removing the names,
Perfectly OK.  
Not,  ‘amended’,  to  say something that was not said, or remove something that was said.

This part: “… You would need to contact the people involved to verify their presence, and statements, but we need their permission to start this process….”
Please explain, (you have already said, several times, the names will be removed,  which I said several times, not a problem)
If I do Not have the names, how would it be even possible to contact someone to verify their presence ?

A Copy of the Minutes/Transcript/Report, of that private meeting, which you stated you would get to me.
With OUT,  ‘Amending’, what someone said.  Is expected.

Done that sort of thing many times,  just make a copy.
Cross out the names with a black marker, then make another copy.
Then send that copy. After that copy machine, their  is nothing more than a black line on the copy, where the name was.
(Kinna thinking you have done that before)

OH, OH, OH, (like: Car 54 where are you), Bot is now going to call me ‘racist’,
because I called a, ‘line’, ‘black’.
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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: Gun sign implementation at a medical center
Reply #19 - 07/10/18 at 19:33:04
 
 "You can come up with a fourth excuse why you can’t"

 I offered you contact with the very people that will be handling this, I wouldn't even be involved to stop it from happening and that's an excuse.

 Any alteration of a transcript is considered amended.  Redaction of names is considered amendment, and would reflect as such on each paper.

"If I do Not have the names, how would it be even possible to contact someone to verify their presence ?"

 That is why I asked if you wanted me to have someone pursue this process.  How can you verify the document is accurate if you do not have the ability to contact the people represented in it?  

 Do you want the people in the amended transcript to be contacted, and get permission for their names to be released to you?  I can not say how each person will respond, maybe yes, maybe no.  You said no, but then asked how you would contact them, so I'm just clarifying.

 I don't know how these are excuses, I'm literally going out of my way to provide you information, or to provide you direct contact to people that will.  Its like you are trying to be confrontational about this for some reason and all I want to do is share information.
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« Last Edit: 07/11/18 at 05:17:54 by Eegore »  
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Re: Gun sign implementation at a medical center
Reply #20 - 07/11/18 at 13:09:28
 
Eegore wrote on 07/10/18 at 19:33:04:
" I offered you contact with the very people that will be handling this, I wouldn't even be involved to stop it from happening and that's an excuse. ..."

Incorrect, you, offered: “…I can send you a copy of the EIC meeting transcript that has statements from all administrative staff that chose to comment on the issue.  The names would have to be redacted and it will take about two weeks to gain the appropriate permissions….”
On post #13, this is response to post, #19.

“…Any alteration of a transcript is considered amended.  Redaction of names is considered amendment, and would reflect as such on each paper…”
Entirely depends on who you talk to.  Redacted, is removing, ’sensitive’ information. Which were the, ’Names” !
As in your statement: “…The names would have to be redacted…”
Amending is to, alter, modify, rephrase, the content. And to add to or subtract to the content.
as in your later statement, "...What is being offered is an amended transcript of a meeting,..."

  “…That is why I asked if you wanted me to have someone pursue this process.  How can you verify the document is accurate if you do not have the ability to contact the people represented in it? …”
You, ’say’ you didn’t understand what my meaning was, yet I believe you fully did understand what I said.

“…Do you want the people in the amended transcript to be contacted, and get permission for their names to be released to you?  I can not say how each person will respond, maybe yes, maybe no…”
This will be the 3rd time I said I do not need the names..

“… You said no, but then asked how you would contact them, so I’m just clarifying….”
Really ?  After I stated I don’t need the names, then you, surmised, I did need them, then when you asked again, I said NO.
Now, you are saying,  If I want them, it will take much longer.

“… I don't know how these are excuses, I'm literally going out of my way to provide you information, or to provide you direct contact to people that will. …”

In the first post, (that started this), you stated you would provide the information, leading to the decision of why the, ’no guns’ sign/s.
Now, their are more and more conditions on  receiving that information.
Ya know, it’s almost like, you don’t have it, or have no authority to give it out, which you said you do: “… can send you a copy of the EIC meeting transcript that has statements…”

“… Its like you are trying to be confrontational about this for some reason and all I want to do is share information….”
Not at, just do what you said you will do,  send the  ‘opinions/meeting transcripts’  with the names of people crossed off.
Again the suggestion, Just print out the transcripts of the meeting, just make a copy. Cross out the names with a black marker, then make another copy. Then send that copy. After that copy machine, their  is nothing more than a black line on the copy, where the name was.

“…I am not sure how to make it more clear that the signs were not implemented to increase safety.  They do not work to increase safety or deter crime…”

Yet they were installed!    This is why I am so interested.
I want to see the comments, of so many people, that you have said, said, ’Signs Don’t Do Anything”,
and why/how, the ‘Signs’, came to be put up anyway.


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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: Gun sign implementation at a medical center
Reply #21 - 07/11/18 at 14:18:47
 
" I offered you contact with the very people that will be handling this, I wouldn't even be involved to stop it from happening and that's an excuse. ..."
 
 This statement was in reference to the PM I sent that explained that it would be more efficient to handle this over the phone, with the people that will be doing it.  That's not an excuse, that is literally a faster method, as in the near opposite of what an excuse is.

 When I say "I can send you" that does not mean that I will actually fly to the location and do someone else's job for them.  I mean I can get that information sent to you, and its faster if you cooperate by talking to the people that will be retrieving this information and approving its distribution.

"Now, their are more and more conditions on  receiving that information."

 What are the conditions?  I asked if you wanted a non-amended transcript for verification that the people in it were present, and if you wanted direct contact to the individuals that will do this for you.  Those are not conditions, those are questions.

 I was asking, not demanding anything.  

"Yet they were installed!    This is why I am so interested.
I want to see the comments, of so many people, that you have said, said, ’Signs Don’t Do Anything”,
and why/how, the ‘Signs’, came to be put up anyway."


 I explained that in the very first post.  There are more lawsuits than threats.
 
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Re: Gun sign implementation at a medical center
Reply #22 - 07/11/18 at 14:45:48
 
Eegore wrote on 07/11/18 at 14:18:47:
"...  When I say "I can send you" that does not mean that I will actually fly to the location and do someone else's job for them...."  

Then please tell me what is does mean, when you said: "... I can send you a copy of the EIC meeting transcript that has statements from all administrative staff that chose to comment on the issue.  The names would have to be redacted and it will take about two weeks to gain the appropriate permissions...."
as a answer to:
"...  I would like to see that, “… factual data  …”  where can I get a copy of it ?..."
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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
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Re: Gun sign implementation at a medical center
Reply #23 - 07/11/18 at 16:41:24
 
 I answered that already:

When I say "I can send you" that does not mean that I will actually fly to the location and do someone else's job for them.  I mean I can get that information sent to you, and its faster if you cooperate by talking to the people that will be retrieving this information and approving its distribution.

 To clarify this means that I will have the amended transcript delivered to you.  I will not do this myself, I will have the appropriate person(s) do it.  I will be the one making the request, and having the process initiated, however I will not be the one taking the steps needed personally.  

 Why do you care who does this?  I tried to make it easier and you complain.  What I should have said was that I could initiate the appropriate steps to get an amended transcript into your possession by means of multiple persons.  I have never actually had anyone care if I was involved as long as they got the material.
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Re: Gun sign implementation at a medical center
Reply #24 - 07/12/18 at 08:42:21
 
Eegore wrote on 07/11/18 at 16:41:24:
"...    To clarify this means that I will have the amended transcript delivered to you.  I will not do this myself, I will have the appropriate person(s) do it.  I will be the one making the request, and having the process initiated, however I will not be the one taking the steps needed personally.  ..."


“…Why do you care who does this? …”

I don’t care if you, or someone under your employ, or subservient to you,  does this.  Never said I did.  If you tell someone else to do it,   again, Don’t Care !

I use the reference to, ‘you’ doing this, Just the same as telling the owner of a Auto Repair shop, "Put in new brake’s”, I don’t care, if he tells one of his workers to, and they do it. Again, I don’t care.

“…I tried to make it easier and you complain….”
Incorrect,  You change from, You,
(You  meaning, you assigning the work to someone under your employ, etc)
To ME, doing the work, and calling the people.
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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
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Re: Gun sign implementation at a medical center
Reply #25 - 07/12/18 at 14:21:26
 
"(You  meaning, you assigning the work to someone under your employ, etc)
To ME, doing the work, and calling the people. "


 This is optional, it is not required, it is not an excuse, it is just faster.  This was a recommendation, or an alternate means of achieving the same result.

 I could have them call you for that matter.  It was a suggested method to speed up the process, that is all it was.  Its not uncommon for people that want information to contribute to the process, take it or leave it, I have no idea why this appears to be offensive to you.

 It was not my intention to indicate that this process was required.
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Re: Gun sign implementation at a medical center
Reply #26 - 07/20/18 at 09:49:37
 
Eegore wrote on 07/10/18 at 10:41:55:
"...  I can send you a copy of the EIC meeting transcript that has statements from all administrative staff that chose to comment on the issue.  The names would have to be redacted and it will take about two weeks to gain the appropriate permissions.
 There is also a transcript of a brief section of a longer meeting with FEMA that touches on the subject for Joint Commission review, names would be redacted and only the section addressing facility signage would be made available.


How's it going ?


Today is 10 days after you said you would do something, in 14 days.

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Re: Gun sign implementation at a medical center
Reply #27 - 07/20/18 at 11:29:04
 
 I did not say 14 days.  I said about two weeks which may be 14 days, or more, or less.  

 I offered a more efficient method that was optional, not required or a stipulation, which you declined.  

 If it helps you feel better I can have someone provide daily updates here assisting you with this countdown, this might save you the trouble of making sure I am aware of the timeframe that this activity is taking place in.  

 I do however have an update:

"the transcript can be provided as per the provided description but we would have to manually type in the names for the print copy and then black them out for the second print copy. These are audio recordings so the names would only appear during the meeting start when everyone states their names and department position or whatever."

 Do you require blacked out paper copies or will a transcript of the audio with some redaction of private information be acceptable?  
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Re: Gun sign implementation at a medical center
Reply #28 - 07/20/18 at 14:48:58
 
Eegore wrote on 07/20/18 at 11:29:04:
 I did not say 14 days.  ..." 


“…I did not say 14 days.  I said about two weeks which may be 14 days, or more, or less. …”
 2 weeks, are 14 days, and yes you said, more or less, what is, ‘more of less’ ?
Would 3 weeks be enough, of, ‘more’ ?

“… I offered a more efficient method that was optional, not required or a stipulation, which you declined. …”
You offered, to have me, to do the work, which you said would be faster, by contacting the people, who, you said I don’t get the names of, so I can get their permission to know what their words were, and not know their name ? (Remember the Movie, ‘Catch-22’)

“…If it helps you feel better I can have someone provide daily updates here assisting you with this countdown….”
 You know full well, a, ‘daily’, countdown is not necessary.

“… I do however have an update:  "the transcript can be provided as per the provided description but we would have to manually type in the names for the print copy and then black them out for the second print copy. These are audio recordings so the names would only appear during the meeting start when everyone states their names and department position or whatever.” …”

Looks/Sounds like the “ ..” part, was someone else reporting to you.
Lets see, it is  a, ’tape’, recording.  So the person, typing the, ’tape’ recording, has to type in the names, then black them out ?
Is it another Catch-22, why not just, Not, type in the names in the first place ?

 “…Do you require blacked out paper copies or will a transcript of the audio with some redaction of private information be acceptable? …”

Paper, typed,  transcript, with ONLY the names removed, NOT, rearrangement, removal, or change, of what the People said, or their position.
AND, as long as the originals are a .WAV, (or like) file. send that as well.  so I can compare.

After all, that is actually, less, than you stated you were going to do in the first place.
"...  I can send you a copy of the EIC meeting transcript that has statements from all administrative staff that chose to comment on the issue.  The names would have to be redacted and it will take about two weeks to gain the appropriate permissions.
There is also a transcript of a brief section of a longer meeting with FEMA that touches on the subject for Joint Co ..."
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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: Gun sign implementation at a medical center
Reply #29 - 07/20/18 at 15:30:20
 
"You offered, to have me, to do the work, which you said would be faster, by contacting the people, who, you said I don’t get the names of, so I can get their permission to know what their words were, and not know their name ?"

 No.

 I offered to get you in contact with the person(s) that will be obtaining the information and then approving the release of information:

"Hello,

EIC transcripts are not public record however I can get you in contact with the security/archival officer at the medical center that can begin the process. A phone conversation would be the most efficient if you are ok with that.  

Just let me know."

 There is a typo there, "officer" should read "office".  This was meant to convey that you could be in direct contact with the people in control of this information, not the people present in the EIC meeting, that's a different process.  

"Lets see, it is  a, ’tape’, recording.  So the person, typing the, ’tape’ recording, has to type in the names, then black them out ?
Is it another Catch-22, why not just, Not, type in the names in the first place ?"


 That's what they were asking.  I sent a copy of your request to have printed copies blacked out, however this method hasn't been used in almost a decade since phones and PC's started recording voice and translating that to digital file.  I don't even own a copy machine anymore because what would I do with another paper copy?  It would be more efficient to have the digital file checked for private content and send that.  But if you want them printed, blacked out and re-copied then scanned I can have that done.  This is optional and not a stipulation, demand or request.

   An audio file will contain private information and will have to be edited by a third party as the office does not offer that service.  This can possibly be arranged if you need the audio files for comparison, this has never to my knowledge been done as the only audio files released have been for use in court of law and may not be edited.
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