SuzukiSavage.com - It is not enough..

LostArtist Ex Member	Re: It is not enough.. Reply #30 - 06/21/18 at 17:25:27 justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/21/18 at 10:30:16: The bible talks about people like you. you know what, nevermind, I don't want to know what you're thinking. the bible talks about all kinds of people,so I'll make my own assumptions... and thank you
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: It is not enough.. Reply #31 - 06/21/18 at 18:00:24 Who did I reply to? Row
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WebsterMark

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Re: It is not enough..
Reply #32 - 06/21/18 at 18:33:48

Eegore wrote on 06/21/18 at 14:53:42:

What is an example of a sin that Jesus did not forgive?

For instance did he inform anyone that their actions would indeed keep them from being absolved, or having their sins cast upon him?

Theres got to be some exclusion to reference if one exists.

None.

There's an Old Testament reference to an unforgivable sin but that's taken to mean the rejection of Grace offered. Look at the thief on the cross.

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LostArtist Ex Member	Re: It is not enough.. Reply #33 - 06/22/18 at 11:17:07 justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/21/18 at 18:00:24: Who did I reply to? Row well then, congrats Row!
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Re: It is not enough..
Reply #34 - 06/22/18 at 13:01:06

Mark 3:29 "But whomever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven: He is guilty of an eternal sin."

Jesus's words. This mean's that the rejection of Christ and the Holy Spirit is unforgivable. However, God's grace and forgiveness is available to all who believe and repent.

However there are expectations. After all even the demons believe. Read Matthew 25:31-46. for expectations.

But before you point fingers at Trump, the USA or conservatives keep in mind. Everyone that comes to out country illegally gets fed, clothed, medical, availability to schools. None of these people are treated poorly. in fact most of them are waaaaay better off just being here.

JOG is right in that Jesus NEVER ask the government, church, or any authority for anything. It is always about personal responsibility. It is always directed to the Spiritual and eternal, never the physical or the now.

For Serow I would ask this: If there is no God what is the reference point you go to in order to define what is good versus what is bad?

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Re: It is not enough..
Reply #35 - 06/22/18 at 13:59:49

MShipley wrote on 06/22/18 at 13:01:06:

Mark 3:29 "But whomever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven: He is guilty of an eternal sin."

Jesus's words. This mean's that the rejection of Christ and the Holy Spirit is unforgivable. However, God's grace and forgiveness is available to all who believe and repent.

There's another interpretation of that... the verse specifically says "the Holy Spirit" you added in Christ. yeah, I understand the Trinity, but Jesus, himself, separated out the Holy Spirit, and each aspect of the Trinity is unique, So what is the Holy Spirit... ? and that's actually a much deeper rabbit hole than I was expecting, as, surprise, there is some disagreement among biblical and Christian scholars and denominations about this...

it's a rather complicated idea... I always thought of the Holy Spirit as the ethereal good will (God's will) that moves between people in the world, the aspect of us that wants to give everyone the benefit of the doubt,

I found this https://www.christianitytoday.com/iyf/advice/faithdoubt/what-does-holy-spirit... "How can you tell if you're being led by the Spirit? By the "fruit" of your life—your attitudes and actions. Galatians 5:22-23 says, "the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control." Are these things evident in your life? Two verses later, it says, "Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit."" and I like that.

so if you are living by the Spirit then

but I'm far from perfect and could probably have a better understanding of all this.

However there are expectations. After all even the demons believe. Read Matthew 25:31-46. for expectations.

But before you point fingers at Trump, the USA or conservatives keep in mind. Everyone that comes to out country illegally gets fed, clothed, medical, availability to schools. None of these people are treated poorly. in fact most of them are waaaaay better off just being here.

most sure, but some. some were abused and we shouldn't turn a blind eye to those

JOG is right in that Jesus NEVER ask the government, church, or any authority for anything. It is always about personal responsibility. It is always directed to the Spiritual and eternal, never the physical or the now.

For Serow I would ask this: If there is no God what is the reference point you go to in order to define what is good versus what is bad?

defining what is good vs bad is a human cultural issue, there are differences throughout the world, there was "good and bad" in the time of the caveman, Aboriginal Australians are said to be the oldest human culture, they have their own "good and bad" being isolated from most of the world, and Native American's had many gods and many tribes with many different "good and bads"

and you know, I"m not really up to all this debate right now... live and let live

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MnSpring

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Re: It is not enough..
Reply #36 - 06/22/18 at 16:15:31

"...what is the reference point you go to in order to define what is good versus what is bad?..."

Just don’t know what someone, who believes in, not believing in something, believes.

After all, when, a whole bunch of other people/religions, said, of a religion, who views/ideas, are Bad.
When that religion said. [Today. (not yesterday or eons ago), But, Today], that:
Throwing a certain kind of person off a roof,
Is Good.
Stoning a Wife to Death.
is Good.
Cutting the Clit off your 12 year old Daughter,
is Good.

And those religions/people, said it was Bad.

Bot said that religion was, Good !

Conclusion: Someone who believes in, Not Believing, is not a good reference point to go to in order to define what is good versus what is bad.

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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Eegore Serious Thumper Online SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 8356	Re: It is not enough.. Reply #37 - 06/23/18 at 08:43:44 ""But whomever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven: He is guilty of an eternal sin." Is that the only one? I've been told being gay, not going to church, pre-marital sex, all kinds of things send us to hell.
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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 13141 Gender:	Re: It is not enough.. Reply #38 - 06/24/18 at 05:06:40 Assuming you’re serious, that that’s what you were told, who told you that?
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Eegore Serious Thumper Online SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 8356	Re: It is not enough.. Reply #39 - 06/24/18 at 06:36:40 I never kept track but a ton of Christian kids in high school had all these different parameters for not getting into heaven, Ive seen a lot of the anti-gay at funerals. Not sure where else.
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Re: It is not enough..
Reply #40 - 06/24/18 at 12:01:32

Unfortunately, many that claim the Christian faith know nothing of scripture or the gospel. God is Holy! Humans are not.

Romans 3:10 "There is none righeous not even one" . Anything that does not meet God's definition of Holy is considered sin. Romans 6:23 " the wages of sin is death". Because of our sin we all deserve death. And I promise you no human is innocent. John 3:16" God so loved the world that he sent his only son so that whomever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Man is not capable of making a way so God had to act. He did this even though humans and the world hated him. But there is a problem. God is Holy and a just God cannot let sin go unpunished. Therefore his son Jesus died a horrible death to pay the price of your sin and everyone else's sin. Therefore if you believe and accept this gift you are declared righteous and can now live in right relation with God. How do we do this? Simple, see Romans 10:9-13.

Are you a sinner? Yes, but so is everyone else and that is the point. Don't look to Christians, they are all sinners too. Look to Jesus.

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MnSpring

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Re: It is not enough..
Reply #41 - 06/24/18 at 12:11:24

Eegore wrote on 06/24/18 at 06:36:40:

I never kept track but a ton of Christian kids in high school had all these different parameters for not getting into heaven, Ive seen a lot of the anti-gay at funerals. Not sure where else.

To be sure we are talking about the same thing, and on the same page, when you say: “…Christian…” exactly what does that mean?
Is it a general form, of all religions that believe in any Deity/God ?
Or a certain religion’s, Deity/God ?
Or certain religions, regardless of their Deity/God ?

Next the word: “…kids…”, does that mean children of a certain age ? (If so what age)
Of a certain experience ? Of a certain education ?

The post most certainly, ‘implies’, a meaning when: “…Christian kids in high school…”, is used.
Yet that implied meaning is not precise enough.
And not being precise enough can make a, ‘implied’, meaning, worthless.

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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Eegore

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Re: It is not enough..
Reply #42 - 06/25/18 at 07:13:49

Christian kids in high school

Humans both male and female within an age category of 13-18, mostly white and Hispanic, no known Asians.

Christian means humans within the defined age group that call themselves Christian.

That's all I know, I didn't really gather a lot of data on them when I was in high school.

" of all religions that believe in any Deity/God ?"

I wasn't under the impression that "Christian" could be a member of all religions, but only Christianity. Are Catholics also Christian?

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Re: It is not enough..
Reply #43 - 06/25/18 at 11:27:10

Quote:

I wasn't under the impression that "Christian" could be a member of all religions, but only Christianity. Are Catholics also Christian?

I always hit the go button too quick. Christians can not be part of another religion. Yes Catholics are a denomination of Christianity. There are a lot of debates on whom is and whom is not a Christian within the faith. Like all religions many people claim their faith purely on heritage.

For instance in the Bible the Jews claimed to be "saved" from their sin and inheritors of heaven simply because they were born Jews. Jesus however refuted this ideat.

The term Christian means to be a follower of Jesus Christ, concerned with imitating his teachings. To be like Christ.

Many years ago a man wrote a book on the top 100 influential people in history. Jesus was number 3. When asked why Jesus was not number 1 he replied that Jesus should be but there was a problem. Not with Jesus but with his followers.

I have always considered myself a Christian, I grew up in a Christian family but I spent the first 30 years of my life trying to destroy myself with drugs, alcohol, and crazy wild living. I woke up in a hospital and was given a year to live. It was then that I met Christ, head on, and in a whirlwind of life I became a Christian. That was 34 years ago and I have been sober ever since and have spent my life in a manner that I hope he finds worthy. There is a big difference in claiming the Christian faith and being a Christian.

Like I said. Look to Jesus, not to his followers. They are just people like you.

PS. there is NOTHING you have done that is bigger than Gods love for you and his Grace and Forgiveness.

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Re: It is not enough..
Reply #44 - 06/25/18 at 11:37:24

and you know, I"m not really up to all this debate right now... live and let live

Actually my post wasn't about debate, someone said there was a verse about an unforgivable sin and I just provided the scripture along with the most common interpretation.

As far as my question to Serow it still stands. I understand Cultural definitions of good and evil. In some cultures people love their neighbors and in others they eat them! do you have a preference?

I study religion and philosophy and Serow has made more than a few anti-theistic comments and I am just curious what he uses as a reference point for good and evil. It's a simple question. there is no judgement in it.

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