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2020 -- new Intel failures & successes (Read 12299 times)
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Re: 2019 -- new Intel failures & successes
Reply #240 - 05/07/19 at 08:31:22
 
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14290/tsmc-most-7nm-clients-will-transit-to-6nm



In this week's quarterly earnings conference call, TSMC’s revealed that the company expects most of its 7nm "N7" process customers to eventually transition to its forthcoming 6nm "N6" manufacturing node. The upcoming node will use the same design rules as the N7 node, making it easier for customers to transition to the newer, denser node. And, if TSMC's predictions come true, N6 is now on the path towards becoming another widely-utilized, long-serving process node for the company.

In comments made during the quarterly call, CC Wei, TSMC's CEO and vice chairman noted that “most of the customers in the N7 will move to N6.” In fact it sounds like TSMC's N6 node is set to become another one of TSMC's popular, high volume nodes, with Wei further stating that “from that day on probably, the N6 will pick up all the momentum and pick up all the volume production.”

As previously reported, TSMC’s N6 process technologies adopts extreme ultraviolet lithography (EUVL) to lower manufacturing complexity by reducing the number of exposures required for multi-patterning (which is needed today as TSMC’s N7 uses solely DUV lithography). While TSMC's N7+ uses up to four EUVL layers, its N6 expands it up to five layers, whereas N5 expands usage of EUVL all the way to 14 layers.


8nm will roll up all the 14-12-11-10-10nm++ and 10nm+++ design worlds that were running off  of several older immersion lithography design levels, burning them directly with the modern EUV production systems in just 1-2 passes.   Rockchip is a good example of a low end producer who is at this 8nm node level right now.

6nm will roll up all of the existing 7nm worlds as they sit right now with layers at 1-4 deep as run on modern existing EUV scanners.   AMD is a good example of a supplier at this 6nm roll up node level right now.

So, the new 5nm is likely to roll down to 4nm or 3nm as its steady state, running at 16-24 EUV layers deep running on the newest extreme EUV systems.   5nm as it is now will be a very short lived node at 4-14 layers deep.   Still likely worth pursuing for Apple and others who need the latest and greatest production system for image purposes for next year.

What does this mean for Intel and Global Foundry?    Modernize your equipment NOW or go extinct inside 5-10 years.    Intel has to start moving while they still have a good enough cash flow to support buying modern equipment.   Intel has started losing some of its customer base just recently so the death clock is ticking for Intel now too.

For Global, it is simply too late already as Global has already lost a good chunk of their customer base already ......   and now AMD is gone for Global now as well.  

Global has got some fire sale pricing on their existing production lines, but nobody is buying them.



===================================================



https://liliputing.com/2019/05/google-assistant-is-getting-10x-faster-thanks-...

https://liliputing.com/2019/05/google-unveils-new-features-coming-to-android-...

Google Assistant has historically relied on cloud-based services to recognize your voice and respond to your requests. But Google says it’s managed to shrink its voice recognition model to about 500MB, allowing it to be stored on a phone for on-device processing.

Since there’s no round-trip to the cloud required, that means Google Assistant can recognize and respond to your voice much more quickly.

Among other things, that means opening apps, taking selfies, responding to incoming messages, composing emails, getting directions, or searching through photos.

Continued Conversation support means that you don’t need to say “OK Google” before every request. If you already opened Google Assistant to view your calendar, for example, you can then just ask it to add an reminder or start composing a message.

Some actions will also work even if you’re offline, such as toggling your flashlight or viewing your calendar.

On-device machine learning

Among other things, Android 10 will include native support for 5G cellular connectivity and native support for devices with foldable displays. It also includes support for on-device processing of text-to-speech, among other things — including support for creating Live Captions of any audio or video playing on your device. You don’t even need an internet connection to generate Live Captions.

Google says it used to need a 2GB, cloud-based model for this sort of text-to-speech technology, but now it’s done using an 80MB file that can be stored on device.

Similarly, Smart Reply can be run on-device in Android 10, offering suggested replies to incoming messages or even suggested apps you might want to open.

Since data doesn’t leave your phone, Google says there’s also no need to send the data to Google servers, thus protecting your privacy.


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« Last Edit: 05/08/19 at 10:35:21 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: 2019 -- new Intel failures & successes
Reply #241 - 05/07/19 at 13:28:37
 

Intel announces ------- Ta Da !!!!  a 28 core dual socket consumerish looking Xeon chipset that is "under development".  

Intel has a problem with this though --- they have no free production capacity to build such a beast and no socket and no motherboard to put it in ......  and Intel has given out NO TIMELINE to do the building of these items inside.    

There may be a presumption on Intel's part that existing big server rack based board designs will be used, in which case I say "ouch" to the cost factor that would represent.

Intel also has this longstanding habit of pushing out brown blasts of stinky vapor whenever AMD gets ready to actually go do something that is real.    Each vapor blast is good for up until the next vapor blast is issued forth from the Intel PR orifice at which time the odor of the old blast is replaced by the new odor.

Eventually, Lisa Su will simply start calling bullshite on all of Intel's bogus announcements like this one and simply quit treating them seriously.

What is sad is AMD really can easily build up to a 64 core chipsets with their existing chiplet tech so a 32 chiplet version in a consumerish type of board is also possible, but not needed --- it is Intel who "can't ever get stuff like that together" and uses the brown vapor cannon so freely.

AMD is taking over the tech leadership position this year and we hope they will be responsible with their new mantle of power.


===================================================



https://www.hpcwire.com/2019/05/07/ten-great-reasons-among-many-more-to-build...

When we get a semi-nonsense vapor blast from Intel that comes out of the blue and seems unconnected to anything else that is going on I start waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Intel likes to "get ahead" of big competitor announcements from AMD and others, even if it is a meaningless blast of nonsense on their part.

Today, AMD and Cray announce that Oak Ridge Laboratory is asking them to quickly build the worlds strongest large computing array.   It will be called Frontier.   It will be rated using the brand new exaflop designation (hey, really really really big and fast) and it will be built programmed and installed during 2020 for only 600 million dollars.  

This is really really cheap and small and fast for a world beating technology expanding biggest performance ever super computer.    Frontier's many Single-socket nodes will consist of one CPU and four GPUs, connected by AMD’s custom high bandwidth, low latency coherent Infinity fabric built from AMD 6nm compute chiplets on the same piece of connection silicon.

In all the sound bites the network commentators ask the question "Why aren't you using Intel?'   Lisa Su dodges that question gracefully as she personally abhors being snarky and a real answer would have to seem snarky to a layman just listening to it.

The answer is read the paragraph immediately above this and realize that Intel is at least 4 lithography generations behind AMD right now and the last Intel based supercomputer that was built 2 years ago cost 20 times more money, did not meet its completion deadlines and did not perform in the end as well as Intel had promised it would.   Technically, it is still not yet completed as per contract, so what can Lisa Su possibly say about it that wouldn't seem snarky to somebody?

The cooling plant alone for the last big Intel unit cost a third as much as Frontier will cost to build in total just to give you another comparison point.  

Cray simply refused to consider using Intel this time around .......

Intel is no the longer technical leader in computing and is scorned now by Cray because of their very poor past performances.


===================================================


Also realize why AMD is going to be somewhat quiet for the rest of this year ---- they are gonna be BUSY BUSY BUSY little beavers.

At the end of this intense effort, expect that AMD will have made several significant leaps forward technologically (government funded in essence) making some strong AMD only advances that you will likely see showing up in AMD consumer units inside 2-3 years time.    

Expect some currently classified details not to come out until then ......
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« Last Edit: 05/09/19 at 20:42:31 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: 2019 -- new Intel failures & successes
Reply #242 - 05/08/19 at 22:12:29
 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14312/intel-process-technology-roadmap-refined...




This is an interesting read.   It starts out with 'explaining' why Intel couldn't move off of 14nm for so many years ...... and why by golly in each of those years Intel had a roadmap for progress just like this one, roadmaps for "relentless innovation" that never actually took place (or failed repeatedly and stalled out which is closer to reality).

Then Intel proceeds to lay out a brand new road map that takes most of a year just to get 10nm started and three years in total to get 10nm up totally to speed, has 7nm magically dropping into place halfway before 10nm even gets going good and shows 7nm progress in stages in three levels of 7nm that are going to take an additional 3 years to arrive and 5 years supposedly to complete.  These are Intel years, of course ---- kinda like dog years in reverse.


Roll Eyes         ...... and why is this new roadmap any different than the last 6 of them ?????


The entire thing is simply for stockholders reassurance, to read with glazed eyes to make an uneducated non-technical stock holder hold on to his Intel stock for just a little bit longer.   Hey, they gotta plan ...... see, it's gonna be OK.

Some interesting stuff here, take a look at that vertical scale Intel is using on the left side of the chart.   Transistor efficiency (performance per watt).  Did Bob Swan realize that in his own PR chart slides you are clearly saying that your competition (TSMC, AMD, Qualcomm) are twice as good as Intel is right now when rated on compute performance per watt?    Bob, you have fired folks for saying embarrassing true stuff like this out loud publicly like this ......  did 'ol Murthy make up these slides, Bob -- or did you ???

Me, I'd like to see a performance per dollar chart, myself .....

Also, Bob, did you realize that your published roadmap also clearly admits just how many lithography generations Intel is behind everyone else at this particular point in time?   Everybody else's roadmaps show 6nm and 5nm as their future plans --- where are  the 6nm and 5nm on the Intel roadmap plans?

Harsh reality is that TSMC has just started a roll up plan for all their 7nm customers to move them all on down from the various 7nm versions down to a consistent TSMC 6nm this year, to be finished before Intel even gets started with their first of 3 waves of 7nm and before Intel ships 10nm in any full production volumes.   Similarly, TSMC and AMD will roll down to 5nm before Intel finishes moving to 10nm, much less 7nm.

Intel did not address this TSMC 6nm roll up plan at all, nor did they talk about AMD, Cray, Frontier or any of their other current Intel image killing issues at all ---- anyone familiar with the industry realizes that Intel PR sessions such as this one are just more smoke and mirrors intended to reassure and distract worried stock holders, nothing more.

The only thing this set of lies will eventually lead to is another CEO management change at Intel when the promised "relentless innovation" changes don't happen, a management change that is sorely sorely needed currently at this point in time.  

In an attempt to redirect the ax away from his own (Bob Swan's) neck, Murthy Renduchintala has been put in charge, putting ol' Murthy clearly out in front and completely responsible for this next wave of "Intel relentless innovation".    

The responsibility for this year's market share losses and "failure of the plan" now clearly rests on Murthy's neck now, not Bob Swan's.    Murthy should go get him another job right now, and simply not be there for the next scheduled Intel chopping block party.

Nasty ax ya got there, Bob ......  who you gonna chop next year once Murthy is all shortened up (or else goes AWOL on you) ???

Tongue



===================================================



https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/10/dow-stock-intel-is-having-its-worst-week-of-2...


Intel is getting chip wrecked.

Shares of the Dow stock slid more than 5% on Thursday following comments from CEO Bob Swan that he expects the company to grow revenue at a single-digit percentage rate for the next three years. The stock was also downgraded to market perform at BMO Capital Markets, with analyst Ambrish Srivastava writing in a note to clients that "at best, we see the shares [of Intel] treading water."

Intel is now down nearly 10% for the week — on pace for its worst week of the year — and down more than 15% in the past month. While some might say this is an opportunity to buy the dip, two experts warn that the stock's fall may not be over just yet.

"I think specifically when it comes to Intel there's really not much to like here," Strategic Wealth Partners' Mark Tepper said Thursday on CNBC's "Trading Nation." "Strike 1, they gave us weak guidance during their earnings release. Strike 2, they underwhelmed us on investor day. Their PC business is flat to declining, gross margins declining, it's going to continue to do so for the next two years. So I'm not going to wait for strike 3," he argued.

One of the reasons BMO downgraded Intel was due to increasing competition from chipmaker AMD. Tepper echoed this point, saying "AMD is coming at them full throttle" and taking market share away from Intel, and also forcing the company to slash prices in an effort to stay competitive.


Hey, strike 3 for Intel occurs on the 27th of this month.  

Intel's specious little "relentless innovation" slide scam got caught out by Wall Street pundits who have slammed the stock with warnings and downgrades, saying even if you believe the "relentless innovation" plan as shown Intel is scheduled to make no real progress on its competitors for AT LEAST the next 2 years.

Being non-competitive for 2-3 more years is more than Wall Street can stand.   And Wall Street wants Bob Swan gone ---- ASAP.
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« Last Edit: 05/10/19 at 06:45:51 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: 2019 -- new Intel failures & successes
Reply #243 - 05/09/19 at 07:57:12
 
The relentless marketing BS will continue until moral improves.
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Re: 2019 -- new Intel failures & successes
Reply #244 - 05/09/19 at 08:11:26
 
 
Following up on my theory that Intel always hits their big brown stinky fog horn right before AMD actually does something neat for real, so here is the latest real neat stuff coming in new from AMD.

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-3000-16-core-7nm-zen-2-cpu-leak-up-to-4-2-ghz-es/



Getting straight into the details for the leaked part, we are looking at a 7nm Zen 2 based Ryzen 3000 series processor which features 16 cores and 32 threads. It was more or less confirmed at CES 2019 when AMD first presented their 3rd Gen Ryzen processors that the Chiplet design will allow for at least two Zen 2 chips on the silicon interposer. So while AMD had shown off an 8 core and 16 thread processor, there was room for even higher 16 core count Ryzen 3000 SKUs.

Now with this leak, we can now say that the 16 core (32 threads) AMD parts are coming down to the mainstream AM4 socket with a real example to point at. The clock speeds for this part are also mentioned and those are adjusted at 3.3 GHz for Base and 4.2 GHz for Boost. We do not know the motherboard that this new chipset testing was run on, so bear in mind that the chip that has been leaked is said to be a very early engineering sample on a non-optimized motherboard and as we have seen with past engineering sample chips, the base frequency in the final retail variants tend to be tuned much better and the base frequency is set a good bit higher.


AMD has released these early engineering samples of their 16 core processor so board vendors can work on and optimize their new boards to take full advantage of the new increased AMD throughput specifications and larger ram amounts that can be used by the new processors.

To equal this $699 AMD chip in Intel's world, you have to buy a Xeon rackspace motherboard and put two good sized Intel $1800 Xeon mainframe chipsets in it, and crowd up the board with lots and lots of expensive Optane memory ........  ($$ ouch $$)  ........


             Roll Eyes                       Tongue                    Undecided                        Huh                    Roll Eyes                       Tongue


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« Last Edit: 05/13/19 at 04:39:11 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: 2019 -- new Intel failures & successes
Reply #245 - 05/09/19 at 15:52:26
 

https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-is-coming-to-your-chromebook/

Google I/O for 2019 is over now, and one last announcement in particular that was sorta downplayed by Google when they made it, but today analysts all over computerdom have jumped on it and are testing for it and so far have verified it (providing you have a top end Chromebook with enough processor and enough memory to do it).

Chromebooks can run ChromeOS, Android, Linux.   We knew that already.  The steps to do this weren't all that hard to accomplish, but it entailed turning on Chrome OS development mode and doing the Crouton assignments at least once to get it all set up.

What has changed is that today, any top end Chromebook you buy today going forward WILL ACTUALLY BE .....

1)   A full Chromebook
2)   A full Android laptop
3)   A full Linux laptop
4)   A full Microsoft Office laptop
 able to get there 3 different ways depending on what you have already

Google quietly changed things up this last Chrome OS release and didn't say anything about it until yesterday.   Digesting the last two items may take a bit, but you can hit a keyboard combo key stroke and switch over to Debian Linux (and by inference Ubuntu and Mint just as soon as the distro boys catch up with the curve a little bit) and you can install and use the full MS Office for Android, or the full MS Office for Linux or simply use MS Office Online ...... or if you wish you can now use Windows 10 OS as has been modified by MS to run your existing license for Office 365 (which includes multiple instances of Windows 10 as installed by you on "all your supporting devices").

We have noted before that MS was ripping off the Chrome browser (sticking it inside Edge) and installing a FULL LINUX KERNEL inside Windows 10 OS itself ..... and MS has also started putting a set of basic FOSS Linux apps inside that same directory structure.  

(And the size of Windows suddenly doubled, too.  Did you guys notice that?)  

MS was intending to collectivize Chrome OS and Chrome browser as a subset of Windows  10 .......  and Google was OK with that while using the standard FOSS Linux license.

Windows firmly intends to adapt to be whatever the future becomes, wishing primarily to get you hooked on their MS nightly maintenance and the monthly maintenance fee charges no matter what they have to do to do that.   Ripping off Linux and Chrome browser seemed OK to MS, as it is allowable by the FOSS license anyway.

Google seems to now be short cutting that MS effort by doing the full enchilada first from their end, giving you all the benefits of MS Office with none of the MS pay me monthly BS fees.   Google does do nightly Chromebook updates too, but Google's updates always work correctly and Chrome updates NEVER intrude on the actual user's computing experience.   You never see it, never have to wait for it or have to fiddle with it.   You certainly never have to pay for it.

Google and FOSS don't mind Microsoft's sneakily appropriating their code, but both now remind Redmond that that situation cuts both ways, Microsoft's attached OS code (Windows 10) has now become FOSS too by legal definition.   And that legal fact just came home to visit Redmond's brain-dead bosses.

......  eeek !!!!      Shocked

Let's all see what happens next .......       (hey, pass the popcorn over this way and gimme a beer while you are at it, too)
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« Last Edit: 05/09/19 at 20:50:45 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: 2019 -- new Intel failures & successes
Reply #246 - 05/09/19 at 20:40:06
 

 Edit:

 Nevermind, I was asking a question I found an answer to right after posting.
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Re: 2019 -- new Intel failures & successes
Reply #247 - 05/10/19 at 18:34:37
 

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3394680/how-windows-and-chrome-quietly-made-2...



After years of endless jokes, 2019 is truly, finally shaping up to be the year of Linux on the desktop. Laptops, too! But most people won’t know it. That’s because the bones of the open-source operating system kernel will soon be baked into Windows 10 and Chrome OS, as Microsoft and Google revealed at their respective developer conferences this week.

Microsoft is overhauling its Windows Subsystem for Linux, which surprisingly debuted in the operating system three years ago. It allows users to run the iconic Bash application and other Linux software via the command line, but because it relies on emulation, performance often suffered.

The cleverly named Windows Subsystem for Linux 2, announced at Microsoft’s Build event this week, shakes things up by shipping a full Linux kernel (version 4.19) within Windows itself as a lightweight virtual machine. Doing so should supercharge performance for developers who use the tool.

“This same kernel is technology used for Azure and in both cases helps to reduce Linux boot time and streamline memory use,” Microsoft corporate vice president Kevin Gallo said in the announcement post. “WSL 2 also improves filesystem I/O performance, Linux compatibility, and can run Docker containers natively so that a VM is no longer needed for containers on Windows.”

Windows subsystem for Linux 2 by Microsoft
A companion post by Craig Loewen, the program manager for the Windows Developer Platform, filled in more details. “File intensive operations like git clone, npm install, apt update, apt upgrade, and more will all be noticeably faster,” he wrote. “The actual speed increase will depend on which app you’re running and how it is interacting with the file system. Initial tests that we’ve run have WSL 2 running up to 20x faster compared to WSL 1 when unpacking a zipped tarball, and around 2-5x faster when using git clone, npm install and cmake on various projects.”

Those are impressive jumps indeed, with the bigger 20X improvement numbers fueled by changes in how the Windows Subsystem for Linux’s file system management behaves. It’ll be interesting to see how WSL2’s performance holds up in the real world when it ships later this year. Microsoft’s also planning to release a jazzed-up Windows Terminal to run your Linux commands, complete with tabs and the sexiest trailer for a command line tool that I’ve ever seen:

Linux software on all Chromebooks
Chromebooks have been intertwined with Linux since their inception. Chrome OS is built atop Linux, so you’ve been able to install Linux on Chromebooks for years. In 2018, Google added the ability to run Linux applications on Chromebooks by moving to a beta channel. That capability has been limited to specific Chromebooks, however—but not for long.

During its Google I/O developer conference this week, Google pledged that going forward, all Chromebooks will be able to run Linux apps, regardless of whether the processor inside was built by Intel, AMD, or ARM, ZDNet reports. You’ll be able to run terminal commands and even graphical applications like GIMP and LibreOffice, right from inside the standard Chrome OS interface. Giggity. How-To Geek has an excellent explainer on how to coax Linux software into running on compatible Chromebooks today.  

Get this: Chromebooks also support Android apps, as Google’s mobile operating system is also built on Linux. Which means that developers could run software from three different operating systems at the same time on a Chromebook. So much for the stigma of Google-y laptops being glorified web browsers.

Whither Linux?
There you have it: Between lurking in Windows 10 and Chrome OS, and the tiny portion of actual Linux distro installs, pretty much any PC you pick up will run a Linux kernel and Linux software. Macs won’t, but it’s based on a Unix-like BSD system that already runs many Linux apps with relative ease (hence Apple’s popularity with developers).



Now take the flip side of this announcement, that Windows has subsumed Linux and tucked it away inside its bowels like a reproductive organ.

Windows is pervasive, and anything that can make Microsoft more stable and more reliable is a good thing for the world, relatively speaking.

Microsoft is counting on being able to front Linux correctly inside their nightly update nightmare world and to convince people that is how they should get their hit of Linux while still using (and paying for) some distinct favorite MS Office programs.

What MS needs to do is make this paring VERY easy to live with.   And VERY reliable.   And VERY VERY VERY fast.

Unfortunately, MS has proven they can frig up a wet dream, so expect them to give their approach to Linux some of their own carelessness and bloat issues when they start pushing updates that affect it.

What we don't see so far is anybody trying to FOSS away any of the MS program functions ---- they could, you know ---- but the question becomes do they even want them?   By and large, FOSS Linux software works better than MS programs, it is less trouble to keep up with and it certainly costs a lot less.    But surely there is something worth taking ......

Open source folks may just avoid MS's existing original bloated stuff by pure habit, unless it is actually better stuff, then they can take the specific code they like out of it legally and incorporate it under FOSS licensing (that is if it is part of the basic Windows OS which has been fully FOSS tapped now, anyway).
As soon as FOSS code is incorporated inside a MS product by Microsoft, the entire thing become FOSS software legally by definition.

Some close attention will likely be paid to Clear Linux by MS, a specially trimmed fat free Debian version that is actually quite small, neat, clean and quick running.   Clear is FOSS already, just a trimmed Linux variant that is currently the fastest version of Linux out there anywhere.
Clear is something that is worth benchmarking or taking .....

But eventually, MS's lawyers will try to fight people taking any MS code and incorporating it anywhere.   That's how MS lawyers justify their existence you know ....... by suing people.   They make billions for MS that way every year, suing or threatening to sue.   And they are pretty good at what they do historically speaking.

And now you see more and more why Google has written Fuchsia from scratch only using Google tools, as a backup second string to their bow in case Linux gets all Mickyfied and jammed up in lots of legal battles.  

In the future, if some sort of legal mess cranks up Google may temporarily lose control of part of Android or lose a large part of their influence over Linux as well until the court cases all settle out.  

So consider Fuchsia as a fall back position, and you got the current picture laid out pretty well



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« Last Edit: 05/12/19 at 18:00:16 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: 2019 -- new Intel failures & successes
Reply #248 - 05/11/19 at 16:15:20
 

Rumors of the AMD restructure of their product lines abound today.

AMD drops all mention of Threadripper product updates on their web pages,  leading one to think that the Treadripper line is perhaps now past tense in AMD's planning anyway.    AMD will not say anything at this time as they want to continue moving out the old Threadripper products that are in the pipeline at full price.

AMD is sending four more current 6 core 12 core and 16 core Ryzen samples out to board makers --- the new 12 core Ryzen is REALLY REALLY FAST and the 16 core Ryzen is energy efficient, flexible and still pretty durn FAST all on its own merits.   Apparently the 16 core outperformed the Threadripper product at far lower cost.

The new 6 core jobbie was sent out to the little board makers as it is now the least processor AMD supplies and the little board guys are used to buying 2 core processors from AMD .....    They will have to roll down to the graphics equipped laptop processors if they want only 4 cores any more.

The 8 to 12 core Ryzen is SPECIFICALLY what you would want for gaming as it is tuned and sorted for SPEED.   Both the 12 core and the 16 core Ryzen outperform Threadripper because of the wider pipes and better memory usage, plus smaller faster lithography on the chiplets.   The 12 core is cheaper, and it is still enough to kick all Intel processors and the old Threadripper to the curb.   16 cores Ryzen is more better, but more expensive of course.   Beyond 16 core Ryzen lives the entire range of Epyc server processors if you needed more processing speed than that.

The 16 core Ryzen is what you would want for everything consumerish that is based on heavy duty parallel processing computational number crunching & data analysis sorts of things that you need to do now-a-days.

The latest 16 core Ryzen kicks the old Threadripper products in the teeth as far as lower power consumption and faster processing goes.  And instead of costing $1,200 the 16 core Ryzen is going to cost ~ $699 > $799 ~.

Threadripper looks to be about done as a product line, as once you go past the Ryzen 16 core chipset you tread the turf of the new Epyc line of server processors.    

Please remember, the chiplets in the Epyc servers are the same chiplets that are in Ryzen, so sorting for compute speed, overclocking and the various differentiating center core functions make up all the differences in the products, going well beyond just the varying number of chiplets involved.

The low end AMD Epyc server processors now cost a lot less than Threadripper used to cost ----- and the 12 core and 16 core Ryzen cost less yet again and yet can kick any of the Intel Core i9 products in the teeth for much much lower cost and greater performance.

Roll Eyes      Has it sunk in on you yet that the least core count of any new AMD consumer processor being sampled now is Six (6) Cores ????    The new new consumer bottom end for AMD is Six (6) Cores ????

Factoids worth remembering:   Currently chiplets are yielding at the 70% level, fully populated, testing says everything is good on all cores, yep, running at the 70% type level.   This is a very good initial yield level and these yields will only improve over time.  

Remember, individual chiplet speeds and overclock levels can vary, so the chiplets are tested and  binned like with like during chiplet testing so by the time the chiplets are pulled to be packaged into a processor  AMD already knows what sort of speeds and overclock-ability they will most likely get out of it.

Highest truncation level is currently 2 cores out of the 8 on the chiplets so you can see where the least & lowest AMD products will come from.   Supply of these chiplets is some subset part of 30% with supply going down over time as chiplet production gets better and better.

AMD originally had plans to truncate all the way down to 2 cores, but TSMC's EUV direct burn process is doing better than that, so that lower 4 and 2 core grades have kinda got forgotten about at the moment ......

All chiplets start out as groups of 8 cores,  next sorting drop down is 6 cores (two burned off)
next drop down is 4 cores (four burned off) and currently that is the worst of the worst anybody anticipates seeing.

I would say bulk chiplet production and building differentiated products from sorted and truncated chiplets saves a whole lot of scrap cost and makes for better running assembly processes and for better smoother operating chipsets.



===================================================



Come time to roll the lithography level down to 6nm (soon) or 5nm or 4nm or 3nm then all AMD has to do is run some wafer fulls of each of the new smaller design chiplets and sort them to see which process operates and yields the best.   The new chiplets can fit on the same CPU die in the same locations.

Remember, the chiplet packaging equipment remains the same, as all the connection traces for the center chip are still the larger 14nm traces that all remain the same.   Automation for packaging the CPU together remains the same, the sorting equipment uses the same ball grid, edge traces and pin configurations so you can simply sort and bin your new grade of smaller lithography chiplets and then put together into completed CPUs and send them out to the vendors for testing, evaluation and motherboard & BIOS tweeking.

Intel has nothing to even play on the same playing field any longer ........
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« Last Edit: 05/26/19 at 19:00:53 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: 2019 -- new Intel failures & successes
Reply #249 - 05/13/19 at 07:15:53
 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2019/05/13/its-time-to-pay-attent...

It's Time To Pay Attention To Intel's Clear Linux OS Project



Intel's Clear Linux Project has been on my radar for months, mainly because of its sheer dominance over traditional Linux distributions -- and often Windows -- when it comes to performance. From time to time I check in on the latest Phoronix benchmarks and think to myself "I really need to install that." Up until recently though, the installer for Clear Linux was anything but intuitive for the average user. It also looked considerably dated. Version 2.0 gives the installer a complete overhaul.

Calling that overhaul a dramatic improvement is an understatement. And as a user's first brush with a distro, the installer is all-important.

Seemingly overnight, Intel's Clear Linux became a distribution with an eye toward not just Cloud environments, machine learning applications, data science and power users, but the broader desktop user as well. The installer is approachable, features a live Gnome environment, and everything is contained within two tabs of options. If you've installed Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Fedora or any other popular distro, you'll feel quite comfortable here.

It also happens to look great which doesn't hurt.


There is a lot to this article, with many many benchmarks and comparative screenshots.  

What I liked was the guy writing the article keeps pointing out that Clear Linux beats the other Linux distros so badly because it is tuned for speed and the distro maintainers and main Linux tree maintainer crowd have gotten complacent and porky, only comparing themselves to Win 10 and thus feeling all good about themselves while performing only slightly better (but consistently better) than Win 10 can do.  

Clear Linux raises the bar for the other Linux distros  ...... considerably.

What he suggests between his carefully worded lines is that Linux is getting ready to get its ass kicked by Clear Linux (with MS holding Clear Linux's coat while it does all the butt kicking footwork).

Another inference is made by the article, that MS knows that Win 10 whatever is going to shortly become a losing proposition to try to keep going.   The sheer mass of the history that it has to haul around on its shoulders is simply too too much to keep up with.   Every half year Win 10 upgrade that has come out lately is so riddle with issues it has to be pulled back and reworked 2-3 times ..... and that ain't the way you run an operating system.

So, MS has found something to glom on to that is SIMPLE, EASY, FAST and SIMPLY BETTER, and they are gonna run with it.

Now, the good news --- Linus Torvalds and crew, go look at the Clear Linux code and figure out the tweeks MS used and how you can apply them to Linux as a whole.

Linus Torvalds had to do this 5 years ago when Google cleaned up and tweeked Android's Linux code and began to beat up on the existing old Linux distro's code speed so badly that Linus simply put the Android code into the main tree as the new Linux standard.   Problem fixed.

I look for something similar to happen here, since it is clearly better code and it is FOSS code already anyway.   The fact that Intel dug it out of the Linux mulch heap and cleaned it up simply means the distro and Linux main tree maintainers have some work to do to catch up with the current new performance wave .......

Wink



South Korea has announced that as a country (government) they are not going to "upgrade" to Win 10 when Win 7 slides over the horizon come January 20th of next year.

South Korea and several other Asian nations are shopping for the best Linux version to meet their government and educational needs.

Part of this is the extreme cost to upgrade to Win 10 capable equipment.   Part of this is Win 10 extreme levels of nagging issues.   And spyware functions, too.

(Come on, MS, you are still deleting software off our machines because we didn't buy it from the MS Store ????)

Now do you see why Microsoft is in such a big hurry to incorporate Clear Linux inside Windows 10?   Or to offer MS Clear Linux as a separate distinct product?   They need something non-offensive that works well to front all the rest of their porky crap.



 
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« Last Edit: 05/26/19 at 19:03:59 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: 2019 -- new Intel failures & successes
Reply #250 - 05/14/19 at 18:22:08
 

Wintel's lasting legacy is going to be Security Holes out the Arse ---- and here are the latest 3 BIG security holes from the Wintel boys.

https://liliputing.com/2019/05/more-vulnerabilities-affecting-intel-chips-rev...

Last year security researchers revealed a set of vulnerabilities affecting the speculative execution feature used by many modern processors to enhance performance. Since the revelation of the Spectre and Meltdown vulnerabilities, a number of related vulnerabilities have been disclosed and today Intel and several groups of security experts have revealed a new set.

The new vulnerabilities have names like ZombieLoad, RIDL, and Fallout, but Intel calls the new group of vulnerabilities “Microarchitectural Data Sampling,” or MDS.

While it’s unclear if malicious hackers have made use of the vulnerabilities, theoretically they allow an attacker to access data on a personal computer or cloud server that shouldn’t be publicly accessible.

Intel says it’s begun including hardware-based mitigations to help protect against this class of vulnerability with its 8th-gen and 9th-gen Core processors. But Intel is also releasing microcode updates for many chips released in the past decade, and working with operating system makers to take further steps to offer software-based mitigations.

But while those steps could help protect your data, they could also take a toll on performance of your computer.

That’s because one of Intel’s recommendations is to disable or limit hyperthreading. So if you have a computer with a 2-core/4-thread processor or a 4-core/8-thread chip, you might find yourself limited to running only as many threads as you have CPU cores after an OS software update.

Depending on the activity, you might not notice much difference… or you could see a pretty significant performance hit.

Microsoft says it’s working with Intel to develop mitigations… and offers guidance for steps Windows users may be able to take now which may also include disabling hyper-threading

Google says it’s already disabled hyperthreading by default in Chrome OS 74, but users who want to manually re-enable it can do so by opening chrome://flags#scheduler-configuration and changing the Hyper-Threading option from “conservative” to “performance.”

Canonical says an updated Linux kernel, qemu, and intel-microcode packages for are “being published as part of the standard Ubuntu security maintenance” for all currently-supported versions of Ubuntu, and updates should be coming for many other GNU/Linux distributions as well. But Canonical still notes that some users may want to disable hyperthreading for enhanced security.

And Apple says the latest versions of macOS includes security updates for the Safari web browser and suggests users only download trusted apps from the Mac App Store to avoid malware that would exploit the vulnerabilities… which seems like a kind of odd response to such a massive vulnerability.  But Apple also offers the option of disabling hyperthreading for “full mitigation for MDS in macOS.”






The only way to fix all 3 Intel vunerabilities is to CUT OFF HYPERTHREADING COMPLETELY ??!!!!  

Cut your Intel machine's performance in HALF ?????
       Shocked    yikes !!!


AMD's 12 and 16 REAL CORES per processor unit sales are gonna get a really big boost out of this one.   AMD is the only pathway to get your high performance and still keep totally secure as Intel lacks the higher number of cores and the huge throughput piping per core.  

And Intel should also catch them a few more VERY VERY VERY large class action law suits (or 5 or 6 dozen of them) out of this one .......

Intel currently has more than 34 lawsuits already started across the nation.   You sign up locally for the local lawsuit in your jurisdiction.

It seems like all of Intel's little historical "performance boosting tricks" are now coming up a crapper, one right after another.

Tongue




One day later, AMD rings in ......  

AMD says officially that NONE of these new illnesses applies to Ryzen or Epic processors, neither to the older AMD processors nor to the new 7nm ones coming out in two weeks.   AMD did real internal hardware things to make their processors more secure, just like they said that they would when Spectre and Meltdown first came out about 2 years ago.    

Intel, these new 3 illnesses are all on you, boys --- you played so many games to make it seem like your stuff was better than it actually was, so now you got an endless stream of security hole after security hole popping up in a row now to take away all your bogus "Intel performance" in the real world.

Intel used to get hit for ~25% of real performance just for Meltdown and Spectre, so now after these 3 new illnesses that hit is up to a ~50% hit for real operating performance declines.  

Your Intel Core i7 just became an i5, and your Intel Core i5 became an i3 .......

Who would be stupid enough to buy an "Intel Inside" any longer ?????    AMD is cheaper, faster and BETTER.
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« Last Edit: 05/21/19 at 04:53:07 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: 2019 -- new Intel failures & successes
Reply #251 - 05/21/19 at 04:26:10
 

https://liliputing.com/2019/05/zotacs-new-zbox-q-series-mini-pcs-pack-intal-x...





Zotac has just introduced two new ZBOX Q Series “Mini Creator” PCs with NVIDIA Quadro graphics and Intel Xeon chips. They’re basically compact workstation computers for graphic design, media production, or other tasks that take a lot of horsepower.

The Zotac ZBOX QX3P3000 features an Intel Xeon E-2136 hexa-core processor and NVIDIA Quadro P3000 graphics with 6GB of GDDR5 192-bit memory.

Zotac’s ZBOX QX3P5000, meanwhile, has the same Xeon E-2136 processor, but features NVIDIA Quadro P5000 graphics with 16GB of GDDR5 256-bit memory.

Both models feature support for up to four 4K displays with 60 Hz refresh rates plus an array of I/O options including:

4 x USB 3.1 Type-A ports
2 xUSB 3.1 Type-C ports
1 x Thunderbolt 3 port
4 x HDMI 2.0b ports
Killer Ethernet (10/100/1000/2500)
Mic and Speaker jacks
SDXC card reader

Under the hood, there are two SODIMM slots that can each handle up to 32GB of DDR4-2666 RAM (for a total of up to 64GB), and an M.2 slot for PCIe NVMe or a SATA III solid state drive. There’s also a 2.5 inch drive bay for a hard drive or SSD and support for Intel Optane memory.



Translate This As:  

Oh Shite ......   AMD has 12 and 16 core Ryzen units a' coming at us that jest flat kick our Intel Core i9 products arses up around their ears thoroughly and mercilessly on all fronts (especially on performance and price).
   
We have NO COMPETITIVE INTEL UNITS against this 16 core threat at all and we just lost the use of all our historical slightly bogus Intel Hyperthreading advertising tricks due to the 3 new Zombie class security risks and the 32 currently active false advertising lawsuits over our past ads and bogus core count ratings so we can't be advertising any doubled by hyperthreading core counts "as real core count" any more.

Quick, get a vendor to cram a rackspace Xeon dual socket cut down motherboard into a user size desktop chassis and remember to use lots and lots of Optane memory to get the speed up to as close to AMD levels as you can get it, then overclock that sucker until the chip sizzles and let's make us up some advertising traction out of it real quick like before it burns up or it gets Zombified or some ungrateful some-beech actually goes and buys a real production unit from the same vendor and actually benchmarks it for real.  And guys, let's move fast on this and do it BEFORE whichever one of these advertising disaster scenario happens to us first ......  

REMEMBER, be very very careful not to say how much it costs in any of the early ads as we don't want to confuse little Joe Sixpack Jr. any before he writes his Christmas list to Santa Claus for this fall ......   plus some ungrateful some-beech will go save that ad and then sue us over it later on as part of a class action suit.

Just hurry up and get something out on the market so we can still claim to be competing ......



===================================================



Two days later, Intel leaks 3 new consumer grade product lines that are based on their Xenon rackspace chipsets.

NO MENTION IS BEING MADE OF INTEL'S SPEEDS OR THE PRODUCT"S COST ....... just some fresh juicy brown vapor to give the impression Intel is competing with AMD's 16 core Ryzen or the 24 core to 36 core AMD EPYC.  

Intel's BS promised delivery is sometimes in 2022, which is far enough out so it will be forgotten or superseded at least 3x by the time it is supposed to be real.


====================================================


Two days later, Intel announces that the Core i9 is a LAPTOP chipset now ......    so Core i9 is being put into play as Intel's normal 8 core processor for Laptops.   Do you sense that Intel rolling everything up a level in response to AMD adding at least two and sometimes 4 cores to everything in their line up?    Intel's price is gonna get even worse with these new Intel units as these are some seriously LARGE Intel chipsets that Intel is rolling up to, requiring lots of extra battery and other resources.    

Plus, don't forget that wad of 3 types of Optane memory that is needed to get them to "go faster" to get close to the AMD standard performance level.
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« Last Edit: 05/26/19 at 19:06:53 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: 2019 -- new Intel failures & successes
Reply #252 - 05/24/19 at 05:27:46
 

 I thought the 32 claimed lawsuits were due to security flaws with Spectre and Meltdown. 3 are Insider Trading that I know of.

 I missed the false advertising group.

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Re: 2019 -- new Intel failures & successes
Reply #253 - 05/24/19 at 05:54:01
 

That is easy to miss as each local case is phrased according to the lawyers putting it forth, and in some cases the false advertising addendum charges are being rung in during the trial as discovery finds that the core count that was used to sell the stuff to the poor consumer fools originally was based upon Intel's Hyperthreading 2x core multiplication which is, by Intel's own currently published security standards are now not allowable to be used.

Think of it as lawyers casually  picking up an easy putt once they are on the green.    Intel brings up hyperthreading as a defense, then the judge rules it not real and then the false advertising charges are then laid in on top of "the negligent everything else".

Intel's relatively current ads and tech sheets and performance benchmarking are littered with evidence of fraud and false advertising once you understand that hyperthreading isn't really real any more and cannot be used to base claims of anything.

Once the court understands the basis for real performance comparisons, then all of Intel's previous claims of "fastest processing speeds" also become grounds for Intel to be sued over.
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Re: 2019 -- new Intel failures & successes
Reply #254 - 05/24/19 at 06:29:48
 

 I was under the impression that "the 34 currently active false advertising lawsuits" meant that there were currently 34 lawsuits that the plaintiff pressed false advertising as the complaint.

 I have someone following some of the cases and haven't heard of any alterations of charges based off discovery at this time although we aren't tracking all 32 known cases.  

 Given charges can't be altered mid-trial it should all come clear soon.
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