School shooters are NOT robbing a store.
They know what their future is. Death or prison. Cruz is the only one who had a get away.

Why do invisible CC guns matter when
Visible signs don't stop bad guys?


That needs Explained?

I'll do it if necessary, but it's kinda obvious isn't it?

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 05/25/18 at 06:53:29:



in the school shootings, the shooters KNEW there were armed security there, NO IF ANDS OR BUTS about it. no concealed "oh what if....."  

do you think that criminals really think.... oh there's a 1 in 15 chance that this person may be carrying concealed before committing whatever idiotic violent crime they are going to?  

aren't most violent crimes crimes of passion?  

anyway.....

found this study
https://economics.nd.edu/assets/165124/craig_chval_concealed_carry_laws_berno...

Abstract

Over the past 30 years, a number of U.S. states have relaxed concealed carry laws. An argument for this shift in statutes is the claim that such laws deter criminals who fear their potential victims will be armed. Using state-level data from 1981 to 2012 within a difference-in-difference framework, I investigate the effect of shall-issue concealed carry laws on violent crime rates. I find the passage of such laws is an associated with a statistically significant 7 percent increase in violent crime. I illustrate this effect with 14 states that adopted right-to-carry laws between 1994 and 1996. Because concealed carry permit holders tend to be law abiding, I conclude that a general rise in gun culture that comes with concealed carry laws is likely to contribute to higher violent crime rates.

here's another one:
Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-ol-patt-morrison-asks-john-donohue-gu...

Does carrying a gun make you safer? Does it make other people safer? Millions of Americans who pack heat think so, and 33 states with “right to carry” laws permit them to tote a gun. But a long-range study released by the National Bureau of Economic Research found that these states would have had less violent crime had they restricted gun-carrying. John J. Donohue, a Stanford law professor and economist, is a lead author of the analysis, which used more than 30 years of crime statistics and a novel algorithm: Researchers identified states whose crime rates paralleled those of states like Texas before it passed a “right to carry” law, and came up with models -- called synthetic states -- to look at before-and-after violent crime in right-to-carry states and non-right-to-carry “synthetic” states. It’s comparing apples and virtual apples, and Donohue – who’s also an expert witness in a right-to-carry lawsuit against the state of California -- concluded that gun-toting indeed makes a difference in violent crime: it can increase it, by as much as 15%


and I could probably do this all day....

are these biased..  maybe, but your NRA ones are too...  

are the methods and criteria flawed in some way..  maybe, but maybe the studies you cite have similar issues..

so we are stuck with everyone believing their own confirmation biases and believing the stats they want to and calling the rest "fake news"

what a useless freaking argument.

verslagen1 wrote on 05/25/18 at 09:43:46:



no, unfortunately, it appears that it goes the other way, more concealed carry = more violent crime,

but sure... only the NRA study is valid...

LostArtist wrote on 05/25/18 at 11:00:51:


NRA story
FBI report
but spin it.

LostArtist wrote on 05/25/18 at 13:49:04:

  "... no where does it say anything about CCLs ..."

Nop it dosen't, and I didn't say it did.

Yet the statements:"...Older data suggests that gun violence might have been even more widespread previously..."
"...This decline in gun violence is part of an overall decline in violent crime..."
"...the national rate of violent crime has decreased 49 percent since its apex in 1991. Even as a certain type of mass shooting is apparently becoming more frequent, America has become a much less violent place..."
   (Coming from a rather Liberal place)
Coupled with the Very Well KNOWN  FACT.
That under B.O. Gun sales, and Permits,
went up at a rate never seen before.
 So adding 2 + 2 ......  
(Oh that's right, for some  2+2, can = 3 or 5)

The, More police, and using computers, Less booze,  Less lead,  better economy, certainly contributed to it.
Yet it most certainly was NOT  the fundamental reason.

Oh,  Point out, where, it was said:
 ‘Banning Guns, leads to Less Violence’  ?

LostArtist wrote on 05/25/18 at 14:19:32:

okay, someone help me out here.... ..."

Depending on where you are, State, County, City.
Their is no 'universal, one word', to mean.
'A License to publicly carry a firearm'
I have heard it referred to as CCW, CCP, CC, CP, PTC, Permit, and their are more.  

So, in the, 'Context', of the article/s
One knows what is being talked about.

(Oh, got to remember, 2 + 2, just may, = 5)

MnSpring wrote on 05/25/18 at 14:34:47:



yeah, I figured that part out genius.... the math still doesn't work

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 05/25/18 at 18:40:51:



what?

so, what time period are you looking at cause You've lost me, I mean, I've only been alive for 40 years so maybe you remember some awfulness I don't, but there have been many studies about why crime went down since the 90's, none of them point to CC 

I really don't know what the heck you are talking about though...  but sure, just keep thinking you are right, no point in arguing with you anyway

GFY