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2018 OIL WAR (Read 373 times)
GT61 TURBO ZX14
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Re: 2018 OIL WAR
Reply #30 - 05/24/18 at 04:48:36
 
If you can understand what they're trying to get at is there trying to go for emissions and less parasitic load the tolerances are darn near the same as they were 20 years ago on the bearings all they're trying to do is get emissions now and how do you do that by putting thinner oil in there for Less parasitic load so the motor easily pass emissions tests I guarantee you my ZX-14 as turbo has tighter tolerances than this Suzuki Savage ls650 and I run 20w50 weight in that because of the number one enemy to Motors is heat and what happens if you don't have a good thin film between the bearing and the crank it'll spinner touch and then it takes chunks out grooves on hotspots in the bearings remember the Suzuki Savage is an old-school motor that's are cooled
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Dave
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Re: 2018 OIL WAR
Reply #31 - 05/24/18 at 05:10:52
 
GT61 TURBO ZX14 wrote on 05/24/18 at 04:48:36:
If you can understand what they're trying to get at is there trying to go for emissions and less parasitic load the tolerances are darn near the same as they were 20 years ago on the bearings all they're trying to do is get emissions now and how do you do that by putting thinner oil in there for Less parasitic load so the motor easily pass emissions tests I guarantee you my ZX-14 as turbo has tighter tolerances than this Suzuki Savage ls650 and I run 20w50 weight in that because of the number one enemy to Motors is heat and what happens if you don't have a good thin film between the bearing and the crank it'll spinner touch and then it takes chunks out grooves on hotspots in the bearings remember the Suzuki Savage is an old-school motor that's are cooled


You seem to be confusing "efficiency" with "emissions".  A lower viscosity can help reduce drag and provide more efficiency.......I don't see how it has any affect on emissions.

You also seem to be ignoring the fact that oils can be too thin - or too thick for an engine, and both can have a negative affect.  Verslagen has proven that 20W-50 results in higher operating temperatures in the Savage.

If you are open to learning and willing to accept reality - you can do an internet search and discover that you really should be using the oil viscosity that your engine was designed to operate with...running a 0W-60 oil in your car designed for 5W-20 is not doing you any good. (Contact your Motul folks and see what they recommend you use).  When an oil is thick it may not be pumped in sufficient volume to lubricate and protect the engine.

Amsoil also states the following on their webpage:
https://blog.amsoil.com/what-does-viscosity-mean-and-how-does-it-affect-your-eng
ine/

How does viscosity affect engine protection?

So what does this all mean to protecting your engine? Put simply, viscosity is the most important property of a lubricant. How lubricant viscosity reacts to changes in temperature, pressure or speed determines how well the oil protects your vehicle.

Lubricants with too low of a viscosity for your engine may cause:
Increased metal-to-metal contact
Increased friction and wear
Increased oil consumption
Leaking seals

Lubricants with too high of a viscosity could also hurt your engine by causing:
Increased fluid friction
Increased operating temperatures
Poor cold-temperature starting
Reduced energy efficiency      


Suzuki does allow the use of 20W-50 when temperatures are above 14 degrees F.....I really can't imagine trying to get my Savage started with oil that thick on a cold winter morning.  The opinion of the senior members of this forum is that you should be using 10W-40 or 15W-40 "dino" oils - or 5W-40 in synthetic.  Rotella T4 and synthetic T6 do a good job and are affordable and are safe for wet clutches in their current formulation.

Other oils can work as well and perhaps better - few oils can be as easy to find locally or as cheaply, and other oils can be considerably more expensive.  It is impossible for us volunteers to constantly monitor the changing formulations and suitability of all the available oils.  Your Motul most likely is a very good oil as it is an Esther based synthetic......I probably can find it on a store shelf within 100 miles of where I live.  



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Papa Bear
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Re: 2018 OIL WAR
Reply #32 - 05/24/18 at 05:31:35
 
I don't need 10W ... My S40 is a motorcycle, not a snow-thrower  Cool
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Dave
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Re: 2018 OIL WAR
Reply #33 - 05/24/18 at 05:57:20
 
Papa Bear wrote on 05/24/18 at 05:31:35:
I don't need 10W ... My S40 is a motorcycle, not a snow-thrower  Cool


Yep...me too.  When it is 55 degrees my bike stays in the garage - and I only ride in that temperature when I know it is going to be warmer in an hour or two.

I likely could use a straight weight oil for the limited temperature range that I ride in.
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GT61 TURBO ZX14
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Re: 2018 OIL WAR
Reply #34 - 05/24/18 at 07:21:38
 
Dave wrote on 05/24/18 at 05:10:52:
GT61 TURBO ZX14 wrote on 05/24/18 at 04:48:36:
If you can understand what they're trying to get at is there trying to go for emissions and less parasitic load the tolerances are darn near the same as they were 20 years ago on the bearings all they're trying to do is get emissions now and how do you do that by putting thinner oil in there for Less parasitic load so the motor easily pass emissions tests I guarantee you my ZX-14 as turbo has tighter tolerances than this Suzuki Savage ls650 and I run 20w50 weight in that because of the number one enemy to Motors is heat and what happens if you don't have a good thin film between the bearing and the crank it'll spinner touch and then it takes chunks out grooves on hotspots in the bearings remember the Suzuki Savage is an old-school motor that's are cooled


You seem to be confusing "efficiency" with "emissions".  A lower viscosity can help reduce drag and provide more efficiency.......I don't see how it has any affect on emissions.

You also seem to be ignoring the fact that oils can be too thin - or too thick for an engine, and both can have a negative affect.  Verslagen has proven that 20W-50 results in higher operating temperatures in the Savage.

If you are open to learning and willing to accept reality - you can do an internet search and discover that you really should be using the oil viscosity that your engine was designed to operate with...running a 0W-60 oil in your car designed for 5W-20 is not doing you any good. (Contact your Motul folks and see what they recommend you use).  When an oil is thick it may not be pumped in sufficient volume to lubricate and protect the engine.

Amsoil also states the following on their webpage:
https://blog.amsoil.com/what-does-viscosity-mean-and-how-does-it-affect-your-eng
ine/

How does viscosity affect engine protection?

So what does this all mean to protecting your engine? Put simply, viscosity is the most important property of a lubricant. How lubricant viscosity reacts to changes in temperature, pressure or speed determines how well the oil protects your vehicle.

Lubricants with too low of a viscosity for your engine may cause:
Increased metal-to-metal contact
Increased friction and wear
Increased oil consumption
Leaking seals

Lubricants with too high of a viscosity could also hurt your engine by causing:
Increased fluid friction
Increased operating temperatures
Poor cold-temperature starting
Reduced energy efficiency      


Suzuki does allow the use of 20W-50 when temperatures are above 14 degrees F.....I really can't imagine trying to get my Savage started with oil that thick on a cold winter morning.  The opinion of the senior members of this forum is that you should be using 10W-40 or 15W-40 "dino" oils - or 5W-40 in synthetic.  Rotella T4 and synthetic T6 do a good job and are affordable and are safe for wet clutches in their current formulation.

Other oils can work as well and perhaps better - few oils can be as easy to find locally or as cheaply, and other oils can be considerably more expensive.  It is impossible for us volunteers to constantly monitor the changing formulations and suitability of all the available oils.  Your Motul most likely is a very good oil as it is an Esther based synthetic......I probably can find it on a store shelf within 100 miles of where I live.  

http://i67.tinypic.com/11tssvc.png







Just run 10w60 it covers it all I will stick to myour motul I have used it in all kinds of applications who holds up the best
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engineer
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Re: 2018 OIL WAR
Reply #35 - 05/24/18 at 07:34:51
 
GT61 Turbo, I run the Motul 4T synthetic (or an equivalent depending on what I can find) in my Moto Guzzi because the manufacturer now recommends it but I use Rotella T3 in my Savage.  The Guzzi has a dry clutch and separate transmission so it is setup like a car, a very different situation than is seen in most motorcycles with integral clutch and transmission.  I am thinking about switching to Rotella T4 for the Savage after I use up my supply of T3.
It's good to see an old fashioned "oil war", it seems like years since we last had one!
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hotrod
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Re: 2018 OIL WAR
Reply #36 - 05/24/18 at 08:58:59
 
I have never seen a engine fail, or show signs of excessive wear , due to the brand or weight of the oil. Only the lack of oil have I seen problems.
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Re: 2018 OIL WAR
Reply #37 - 05/24/18 at 09:01:33
 
I'm running synthetic 10W-40 mc oil in the Savage, but it has SF/SG API rating so it should contain enough ZDDP. No slipping clutch.
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hotrod
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Re: 2018 OIL WAR
Reply #38 - 05/24/18 at 09:41:36
 
Much of it is mental. We all feel good when we change our oil. Sometimes we even think the engine runs better, although I think that might be impossible.
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Re: 2018 OIL WAR
Reply #39 - 05/24/18 at 15:03:06
 
hotrod wrote on 05/24/18 at 09:41:36:
Much of it is mental. We all feel good when we change our oil. Sometimes we even think the engine runs better, although I think that might be impossible.


No it's just returning the love it got when you changed the oil. Trust me it's as alive as you are !Grin
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Re: 2018 OIL WAR
Reply #40 - 05/24/18 at 18:38:35
 
 Papa bear,"I don't need 10w it's a motorcycle not a snow-thrower" Well yes you do!  do you think you might be better off running a straight 40 weight oil? the answer to that question is NO! 90% of wear occurs at starting, On a 70F degree morning your oil is also 70F yet the normal operating temperature is a least 270F.( motor oils are rated at 100C= 212F) A 10w 40 oil gives some flow/ protection until the oil reaches 270 and 40 weight ,thereby decreasing wear at cold startup. A 5w-40 synthetic gives more protection and less wear because it comes to temperature faster than a dino based oil. A straight 40 weight oil at 70F is molasses ! You'd have very high pressure but very little flow through the oil passages, and little protection for the moving parts.
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« Last Edit: 05/24/18 at 20:13:23 by batman »  

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