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The reloading bench -- aged nostalgia stuff (Read 414 times)
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The reloading bench -- aged nostalgia stuff
04/30/18 at 11:24:20
 

SHOOTING ELEPHANTS WITH A 7MM

When I started out shooting as a boy, there was 30-06 vs the 270 and 30-30 with 7mm Rem Mag as the up and coming fast shooting long distance fancy pants expensive nonsense cartridge that kept all the gun rags in circulation.

Then, as my generation slowly matured into wisdom, the 7mm-08 became beloved by all of us for its low recoil and wide wide range of bullets suitable for a 9 twist rifle.

Then our eyes went south and our surgeries came and went, and what the heck do we go do now?    Fact is, we are all old and feeble now and shooting in general is a big disappointment as we suck at it right smartly now.

Answer, collect up the reloading stuff we always wanted, and add in whatever oddball fascinating cartridges and whatever oddball fascinating guns apparently.

My last episodic fascination has been with my favorite cartridge, the 7mm-08 Remington, a simple do anything cartridge that you can feed really really cheap using 7.62 NATO once fired brass and various pulled military powders by the gallon jug.

This gun can fling a wide range of bullets from 100 grain bullets and 110 grain bullets (both are varmint/coyote  stuff at well over 3,000 fps).  Ditto for 120 grain and 130 grain deer bullets at 2,900-3,000 fps.   And 140 grain, 150 grain and 160 grain hunting bullets....  

Hunting bullets range up by 10 grain increments all the way up to 175 grains, so we need some of each of those as well.

7mm bullets are still popular worldwide, and still come in varmint to deer to moose/buffalo construction types and in all the various weight ranges.   This modern HIGH PRESSURE 7mm-08 rifle is a short action offshoot of the perennially popular 7x57 cartridge that itself has over 130 years of history as the "rifleman's pick"  --- picked by the real he man for his wife to use on safari, of course.  

Bwana would never never confess to not always using his 375 Rigby Magnum simply because his shoulder was all bruised and sore and his flinch had grown up to be the size of Texas from shooting his Bwana Rifle.

So, ring in the modern age -- we got us whole new classes of powder now that can do things that Cordite never dreamed of being able to do.

And new tricks, using barrel coatings and impact dry lubricant coated bullets  (like Hexagonal Boron Nitride)  that allow the new Reloader 19 powder to make a 22" barrel 7mm-08 into a 7mm Rem Mag using the exact same 160 grain high BC long distance bullets.

And after a while, all this good stuff begins to pile up on you -- finished up good stuff no less.   Piled up until you have almost a complete collection of it.  

Almost .....


===================================================


     
This is an actual pic of Bell's actual rifle and rounds,
courtesy of John Rigby & Co who had bought the gun from Bell's estate along with his larger much less used double bore Bwana rifle.


Kilimanjaro Bell had him a well used 275 Rigby (a British rebuilt 7mm Mauser action) that he used to brain shoot close to a THOUSAND female elephants over the years,  shooting them with 175 grain round nosed "solids" (war time military surplus steel jacketed copper clad ammo).   These slugs were running along at only 2,100 - 2,200 fps but would still penetrate to a 3 feet depth of elephant skull to drop a cow pachyderm in its tracks from 55-75 yards away.   And Bell had used them simply because he needed a really really cheap dependable deep deep penetrating bullet to go get the cow elephant population culling job done for this season just so he could get paid the yearly culling bonus.

Rocky Mountain Reloading (contract scrap-sellers of factory pulled bullets from ATK/Speer/Federal ammo) came up with 250 of the 7mm soft point (very low velocity expanding) version of the Kilimanjaro Bell long heavy round nose format bullet.   The price was right, so I bought 250 of them so I could go fill out my 7mm-08 ammo collection.

2,100 to 2,200 fps is VERY VERY slow now-a-days (that spaghetti stranded cordite stuff was nobody's speed demon compared to today's modern powders) and I am making me up a round to mock something that a modern 30-30 lever action could easily better speed-wise these days without even trying very hard.  

Still, 2,300 fps is a pretty close modern equivalent, close enough for government work anyway .....

Retro Powder of choice would have to be IMR7383 (at around 41 grains) as that would smell about right.   Cordite stank distinctively when it was fired and so does IMR7383 as they are somewhat similar in composition.   Gots to have that authentic Cordite type odor, or it jest wouldn't be real and true Kilimanjaro Bell certified pure quill fake antique stuff .....

https://www.chuckhawks.com/bell_elephants.htm

Bell recorded all of his kills and shots fired. It was a business to him, not pleasure, and he needed to record expenditures.

He shot exactly 1,011 elephants; about 800 of them were shot with Rigby-made 7x57mm (.275 Rigby) rifles and round nose 173 grain military ammo.
He also shot elephants with a Mannlicher-Schoenauer 6.5x54mm carbine using the long 159 grain FMJ bullets and noted that it was probably the most beautiful rifle he ever had, but gave it up due to faulty ammunition.
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« Last Edit: 05/02/18 at 03:12:11 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: The reloading bench -- aged nostalgia stuff
Reply #1 - 04/30/18 at 21:27:09
 
Faulty ammo in the bush could get a guy killed I spoze,or, just be a loss, because he paid for the shot, but failed to make the kill.
Not sure
Culling
Was a great idea, but IDK.
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Re: The reloading bench -- aged nostalgia stuff
Reply #2 - 05/01/18 at 04:47:03
 

When Bell was in Africa, he dealt mostly with her Majesty's Colonial Government and the local tribe Chieftains.   Both tribes and government thought of elephants as a big rabbit population that was running way out of control as the budding African agriculture scene was being treated as a garden patch by the ever hungry elephants (who thought crops were a lot easier to eat than tree tops).

Think of Bell as a Colonial Government Agriculture Agent who carried a gun to shoot rabbits with  .....
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Re: The reloading bench -- aged nostalgia stuff
Reply #3 - 05/01/18 at 07:20:40
 
I understand then .

I've read stories about communities and they have a guy who is the Elephant control cop. He was a clever guy.
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Re: The reloading bench -- aged nostalgia stuff
Reply #4 - 05/01/18 at 20:05:08
 
So would elephants with a 7mm / 2200fps  be like squirrels with a .177 / 700fps air rifle ?    
I have yet to find an accurate "spring piston" or "air bag" rifle.   There are some really accurate pump-up or cylinder rifles out there.
Squirrels can be pesky as elephants sometimes !
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Re: The reloading bench -- aged nostalgia stuff
Reply #5 - 05/02/18 at 02:30:50
 

Springers are powerful, but not accurate.   Pump ups are more accurate, and can be almost as powerful.   Pneumatic (tank style) are both accurate and powerful, but are more expensive.

If I was ever going pig hunting for large pigs at fairly close range, I'd have me a round to do it with.   Ditto for other larger body game at short distances.

Funny, the finished round actually resembles the K31 rifle rounds your son started out shooting, a big bullet, sorta slowish  --- running the same powder type and charge as a matter of fact.

It's all relative.   Other "Great White Hunters" said Bell was a surgeon who had a set of pathways to an elephant's brain that his 7mm could reach where as their cannons could go in at any old angle and get the job done.   They tended to shoot both barrels from closer distances and were larger, more burly men that could handle the rather stout recoil.

Bell said he could shoot from the front or from the side at the elephant from "ignore the man" non-alarming distances of 75 yards and have the elephant drop right where it was, stunned, then he'd walk up for a coup de grace shot (if there were no other cows in the area as they would gather around to defend the fallen cow as a group).

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« Last Edit: 05/03/18 at 18:38:56 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: The reloading bench -- aged nostalgia stuff
Reply #6 - 05/02/18 at 15:27:22
 
Makes ya (me) wonder what those Stone-Age hunters did when an Elephant was on the menu ...   Huh
Could it have been people didn't know what Elephant tasted like till the modern times ?    At least "Fresh Elephant"  Grin
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Re: The reloading bench -- aged nostalgia stuff
Reply #7 - 05/03/18 at 04:05:50
 

Stone age Neanderthal men hunted lone elephants with a group of 4-6 men, attacking a lone elephant from the sides with long spears while a really fleet footed hunter distracted the beast waving a fur in its face then running away between a gauntlet of hidden spear men.  

They would set a spear or two into the elephant's softer guts from the side as the elephant rumbled past, then they would back off and follow the wounded beast for a day or so until sepsis finally killed it.

Not mankind's greatest moment, Neanderthal elephant hunting .....


Roll Eyes


We are lucky that enough of these particular stone aged men survived to promote the species long enough to get them integrated into Homo Sapiens well enough to give us our genetic dispositions to food allergies, diabetes, beer guts and back problems.


(actually, we actually descended primarily from the other side, Homo Sapiens, the ones that drove whole herds of elephants over cliff edges using carefully staged grass fires)



I had a dozen or so bullets with malformed tips, so I used my seating die hollow pointing trick to put a nice little hollow point into the badly manged lead tip, reforming it into something more balanced and useful.


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« Last Edit: 05/03/18 at 12:03:24 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: The reloading bench -- aged nostalgia stuff
Reply #8 - 05/03/18 at 14:07:41
 

Ok, so I have finished building up the last of the 7mm-08 rounds, so it is now on to some new turf.

In North Carolina it used to be illegal to shoot big game with anything less than a .243 Winchester, this being based upon historical cup and core bullets blowing up unreliably in anything below .243 caliber for the longest time.

Then bullets in general went and got a lot better, especially the electro plated jacket Fusion stuff (atomically bonded jacket) and the Barnes swaged solid copper stuff with the skived petals.   Bullets that literally could turn inside out and still stay together, penetrating 14 to 16 inches of "meat" in the FBI dense gel type testing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol8tgGtoXus

Now it is legal to hunt all game (deer and hogs and bear included) in North Carolina with a .223 with Fusion bullets and with Barnes total copper bullets.   Heck, you can hunt with the new center fire  Federal .20 caliber stuff if you use a decent bullet.  

So, being retired, I went and bought me a short stocked kid's version of a heavy barrel CVA break open rifle in .223 to play around with, and 500 prepped cases and 500 62 grain fusion bullets.    The little gun breaks down into a 20" long barrel package, so it can ride around in a saddle bag on my Barcalounger if needs be.

MM uses .223 so he knows what I am talking about.   This is exactly like his Thompson Center pistol with double the barrel length and a full shoulder stock.
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« Last Edit: 05/07/18 at 17:28:13 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: The reloading bench -- aged nostalgia stuff
Reply #9 - 05/03/18 at 21:36:11
 

So, this is the actual bullet, which can hold itself together at ~ 80% ~ weight retention at an average 15 inches of penetration, penetration which will likely exit on a lung chest shot and will surely exit a neck shot or head shot.

New tech means new rules ---- old dudes and kiddies can now go hunt with something they can actually stand to shoot.

The expanded diameter runs around .60" - .70"  max petal to max petal with the petals tending to curling under around themselves to more firmly support themselves (tumbling and winding up in a ball like format).

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« Last Edit: 05/04/18 at 07:30:24 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: The reloading bench -- aged nostalgia stuff
Reply #10 - 05/03/18 at 23:35:42
 
Of all the evil deeds I've been accused of, 18" of penetration has never shown up in a complaint.
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Re: The reloading bench -- aged nostalgia stuff
Reply #11 - 05/07/18 at 18:01:05
 

Now I am going to be custom seating (length stretching) these rounds to exactly fit the break action gun, which means I am not being length limited and can fit the bullet seating depth to be extended somewhat, offering more powder capacity in the existing small case.  

These rounds will not fit into a AR, ever.   Especially after being fired once and expanded out to fit the CVA Hunter's chamber (neck sizing only from then on is planned by me, of course).

Plus, note that a .223 is actually the proportional shape of a tiny little miniature 30-06 or a really really tiny 50 caliber BMG (when you really scale it up a good bit).  

The military really liked that particular case/bullet shape and ratio format over the last 100 years, they really really did.   Used it 3 times in major rifle ammo, just shifting the total size and caliber up and down.

Using heavy charges of slow burning ball powder (26 grains for .223) you can expect throat erosion at a rate of .007" per 500, or so say the AR15 guys.  So rather than using all my wear out factor all up during the initial fitting I think I will just smooth the throat out occasionally during routine cleaning and let it grow naturally deeper and deeper into the barrel.

My reloading set up is simplified as all case preparation and priming steps have already been done, so the only stations that are manned are the powder drop and the bullet seating.

Since the rounds are not going from a slam loaded magazine into a bullet/bolt head stressed AR-15 type set up I can leave off the bullet/case mouth post crimp operations too, which further simplifies my reloading set up.  

My rounds will be rigorous enough since I will be stopping the rear boat tail change-over inside the neck itself, giving me a neck deformaton shoulder where the bullet boat tail still has a bit of neck left that is  not yet expanded by the seated bullet.

So, my little pistol autoloader can serve to quickly load these rounds up, with me manually seating cases, bullets and hand manipulating the last tiny up bit of the auto-measure's up-down stroke to keep powder charges consistent.   The machine will handle the rest, automatically.

I think the little thing is right cute, and it will perform far in excess of its size as long as I can shoot it accurately.
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« Last Edit: 05/08/18 at 02:29:49 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: The reloading bench -- aged nostalgia stuff
Reply #12 - 05/07/18 at 20:09:03
 
 The little gun breaks down into a 20" long barrel package, so it can ride around in a saddle bag on my Barcalounger if needs be.

MM uses .223 so he knows what I am talking about.   This is exactly like his Thompson Center pistol with double the barrel length and a full shoulder stock.    


I get one shot stops just as much with the 223 as I used to with the ( 243 or 30-06)

and  ....  I shoot a "LOT" more accurate with the .223 round , I'm not  expecting that recoil .   Two of my hunting buddies who use (7mm Mag.) and (300 Win.Mag) give me a hard time about shooting a BABY round and I tease them both about all the times they have missed with them CANNONS  they  "try" to shoot straight...  Grin
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Re: The reloading bench -- aged nostalgia stuff
Reply #13 - 05/08/18 at 02:26:21
 

MM, recoil is all in your head and what you are used to.

People who shoot trap all the time really don't notice rifle recoil as recoil -- because to them it isn't.    

It takes up to 90 grains of powder, a 55 cent bullet and a 5 cent primer to fuel one of the big magnums.    A .223 reloading cost is easily less than 1/3 that much.

The thought of a range session that does not involve aspirin afterwards will be a pleasant change for me also.
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Re: The reloading bench -- aged nostalgia stuff
Reply #14 - 05/09/18 at 06:34:55
 
Been following the thread and have to laugh about aspirin after a range session. I'm still old school and shoot 30-06 reloads which keeps me honest or bruised depending on how I hold the rifle.
 Don't know about your range but the local county range I shoot at has so much 223 brass laying around I can fill a bucket in under 5 minutes if I want to. .223 components are way more affordable than the larger calibers for reloading.
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