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Anandtech on First Wave of TSMC 7nm production (Read 123 times)
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Anandtech on First Wave of TSMC 7nm production
04/25/18 at 03:17:12
 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12677/tsmc-kicks-off-volume-production-of-7nm-...



TSMC last week announced that it had started high volume production (HVM) of chips using their first-gen 7 nm (CLN7FF) process technology. The contract maker of semiconductors says it has over a dozen of customers with tens of designs eager to use the technology to make their integrated circuits.

The 7 nm node is a big deal for the foundry industry in general and TSMC in particular. When compared to the CLN16FF+ technology (TSMC’s most widely used FinFET process technology) the CLN7FF will enable chip designers to shrink their die sizes by 70% (at the same transistor count), drop power consumption by 60%, or increase frequency by 30% (at the same complexity). So far, TSMC has taped out 18 customer products using the CLN7FF technology, more than 50 CLN7FF products will be taped out by the end of 2018.

CLN7FF is expected to be used to build CPUs, GPUs, FPGAs, neural network processors, cryptocurrency mining accelerators, mobile SoCs and so on. This is important because demand for smartphones is slowing down and TSMC needs other customers to offset lower orders for mobile SoCs.

“So far, we have already favored out more than 18 customer products with good yield [and] performance,” said C. C. Wei, a Co-CEO and President of TSMC, during a conference call with financial analysts. “More than 50 products tape-outs has been planned by end of this year from applications across mobile, server CPU, network processor, gaming, GPU, PGA, cryptocurrency, automotive and AI. Our 7nm is already in volume production.”

TSMC’s CLN7FF process technology will rely on deep ultraviolet (DUV) lithography with argon fluoride (ArF) excimer lasers operating on a 193 nm wavelength. As a result, the world’s largest contract maker of semiconductors will be able to use existing manufacturing tools to make 7nm chips. Meanwhile, to keep using DUV lithography the company and its customers have to use multipatterning (triple and quadruple patterning), which increases design and production costs as well as product cycles.



So, this year we got the first generation CLN7FF process technology that uses deep ultraviolet (DUV) lithography with argon fluoride (ArF) excimer lasers operating on a 193 nm wavelength in a 3 & 4 layer deep masking process.  Somewhat slow and old school in the multi-masking aspects, but 7nm first gen has arrived and it was successful for 18 customer layouts and several LARGE very real production runs with good yields -- but at a high production cost.

Next year there will be a EUV CLN7FF+ process that will do away with the expensive triple and quadruple patterning and speed up the production process by direct burning the substrate (cut production costs a lot further).   So, this announcement really says Apple paid out the arse big time to develop the very first generation 7nm process line, got and used their gen 1 7nm process for 2017-18, ran off all their Apple stuff off on it and now that original 7nm gen 1 process line is sitting there idle ready for general use.  

Apple also is paying to develop the next generation EUV CLN7FF+ process line and Apple is currently running their 2019 products off of the gen 2 line as we speak.

But note please, the real "move the world" TSMC 7nm roll out for Johnny Everybody will be next year using this EUV CLN7FF+ gen 2 process lines at a much lower production complexity and cost posture.  



And yes, Intel has indeed failed at 10nm yet again  ---  failed to make a shipable large scale run off their 4 years developmentally belated 10nm process.   The only thing that has actually shipped in any volume from 10nm Intel is a rework of the mass of 4 and 8 core production trial run chips left over from the last couple of attempts, reworked by cutting off traces and counting only 2-6 out of the 4-8 cores as usable.  

Intel is getting closer though, with real "actually use the stuff" 10nm production runs planned for later on this year.

By the time Intel gets their 10nm multi-mask process right, TSMC will be on 2nd generation EUV CLN7FF+ direct burn process at a much lower production complexity and cost posture.


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« Last Edit: 04/25/18 at 19:50:09 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Anandtech on First Wave of TSMC 7nm production
Reply #1 - 04/25/18 at 04:44:27
 

As the newest Apple phones go past $1000 out the door cost points, a new reality is sinking into the computing mindset.  

Nobody really needs the extra 40% CPU based processing speed right now.   You can get 5-6 times better throughput right now by using AI blocks to speed your apps up A WHOLE WHOLE LOT.

What is really cost efficient right now are larger AI/GPU co-processors, much better learned AI software to run on them, and MUCH MUCH SIMPLER FASTER EXECUTING OS CODE.

Get rid of the OS code bloat and USE the AI to speed things up instead.
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« Last Edit: 04/25/18 at 19:41:40 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Anandtech on First Wave of TSMC 7nm production
Reply #2 - 04/25/18 at 18:11:33
 
They've been writing horribly bloated code for so many years, who's gonna teach them how to unbloat it all?

All the guys that used to program in assembler and count clock cycles to increase throughput are gone.

The wave of programmers that is in now are the ones that have always used high level languages and compiled their programs.  If it gets too slow, just require a faster processor as the base system requirement. Easy.  Now they are going to have to learn a whole different mindset to programming and make choices of commands used based on execution times.  This might take a while. I hope they don't just start using the AI as a crutch.
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Re: Anandtech on First Wave of TSMC 7nm production
Reply #3 - 04/25/18 at 19:16:53
 

Crutch or not, AI is showing a pathway to 10x better throughput at much less cost than creating better processors.

Google is going down this pathway already with the simplified brutal fast Fuchsia OS -- no code bloat anywhere, no legacy nutthin', fast new style memory and AI used first all the way through it .....

You see the OS people beginning to react to this thought already, yup, that great big burning handwriting is up on the wall for all to see.
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Re: Anandtech on First Wave of TSMC 7nm production
Reply #4 - 04/25/18 at 20:00:37
 

Speaking of really big burning handwriting up on the wall ......  Intel really is being "Apple cored" and bung screwed in the resulting core hole.

https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+replaces+intel&oq=apple+replaces+intel&...

There are dozens of different write ups here from lots of different perspectives, Bloomberg is the Financial viewpoint and ArsTechnica is the hard core computing tech perspective.
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Re: Anandtech on First Wave of TSMC 7nm production
Reply #5 - 04/27/18 at 09:21:36
 
Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 04/25/18 at 03:17:12:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12677/tsmc-kicks-off-volume-production-of-7nm-...


And yes, Intel has indeed failed at 10nm yet again  ---  failed to make a shipable large scale run off their 4 years developmentally belated 10nm process.   The only thing that has actually shipped in any volume from 10nm Intel is a rework of the mass of 4 and 8 core production trial run chips left over from the last couple of attempts, reworked by cutting off traces and counting only 2-6 out of the 4-8 cores as usable.  

Intel is getting closer though, with real "actually use the stuff" 10nm production runs planned for later on this year.

By the time Intel gets their 10nm multi-mask process right, TSMC will be on 2nd generation EUV CLN7FF+ direct burn process at a much lower production complexity and cost posture.






Intel finally comes clean on NOT being able to run a 10nm process yet again (6th attempt over 4 years).

https://liliputing.com/2018/04/intel-delays-mass-production-of-10nm-chips-unt...

As suspected, Intel is having a hard time ramping up production of 10nm processors, which means the company is going to be delaying mass production… again.

The company had initially hoped to start shipping 10nm chips in large volumes in 2015, but that date has been pushed back several times and now the earliest we can expect to see Intel’s 10nm “Cannon Lake” chips is 2019.

The confirmation came during Intel’s quarterly earnings call, with CEO Brian Krzanich noting that the company is shipping 10nm chips “in low volume, and yields are improving, though the rate of improvement is slower than we anticipated,” which is why volume production is being pushed from late 2018 into 2019.

In the meantime, the company has announced plans to launch additional 14nm chips this year that use a new “Whiskey Lake” design. The company also has a new “Cascade Lake” architecture for Xeon an server chips.

Moving to a 10nm process should offer improvements in performance and efficiency. For the last few years Intel has had to find other ways to improve its chips, such as increasing the number of CPU cores, raising the top CPU frequencies, or improving memory bandwidth.

All of this is happening at a time when rival chip maker AMD is pushing its new Ryzen line of processors, which are the most competitive chips the company has offered in years in terms of price and performance.

Meanwhile, Intel’s difficulties getting to 10nm have prompted the company to change its product roadmap several times in recent years… and to pretty much give up on its long-held “tick tock” cadence, which saw a die shrink one year, followed by a microarchitecture update the next.

Intel’s 5th-gen Core processors, code-named “Broadwell,” were the company’s first chips massed produced using a 14nm processor. The company stuck with 14nm for its 6th, 7th, and 8th-gen chips.

Maybe 9th or 10th will be the charm?



PLEASE LISTEN TO THIS:  

Intel has not improved the real performance of their processors in any meaningful way in 4 years now.

Do not buy a new PC expecting anything other than what you have right now.

Actually, the new stuff will carry new constantly endlessly running overhead checks providing "active mitigation" for Meltdown, Spectre and several other identified Intel exposure modes.  

Your new machine will be no faster than your old machine, even though it swings some extra cores and it costs almost twice as much to purchase.

Wintel lies a lot lately about machine performance -- do not be sucked in by BS and lies.

Last 3 items on the slide below are now know to be bullshite, so just read this slide chart as "no real progress from 2014 to 2019" as your take away out of the whole thing.

And I say again, any Intel 10nm chipset shipped so far is actually the product of a large scale "trace laser cutting rework" chopping off 2-4 defective cores from chips run off in the last 4 attempts at Intel 10nm production runs .....  

Tongue          It is the source of the 2-4-6 core 10nm laptop chipsets that Intel just shipped as "great progress in 10nm technology"


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« Last Edit: 05/01/18 at 06:31:08 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Anandtech on First Wave of TSMC 7nm production
Reply #6 - 04/28/18 at 08:52:58
 

3 quick things that became REALITY this week.

First and Second generation 7nm TSMC are both taking and making real production orders right now (Apple's lock out is still active on 2nd gen TSMC at this point in time).   AMD is making video cores and CPUs at TSMC right now at 7nm.

TSMC has started pouring the foundation for their 3nm building ......

TSMC has completed the 5nm building's frame and roof and electrical/water/HVAC on their 5nm building and are now installing the very first 5nm ASLM lines in the new facility.

Both TSMC, Samsung and Global are claiming their separate, slightly different developmental 5nm memory production processes "are going well at good yields".    People have actually seen 5nm memory samples from TSMC and Samsung ......  

Global is acting all shaky again, with AMD actually moving some planned items over to TSMC as we speak --- look for Global to seek an IBM or Samsung partnership or for some other form of technical assistance.

TSMC says they have an early 3nm developmental memory trial run "imminent".   TSMC is peddling 5nm memory regularly now as the lines are seen as stable.    TSMC is the only player with the funds (enough Apple money) to push on through to 3nm inside the next 5 years.   Apple's iPhone X is faltering though as the $1,000+ price tag is jest too too durn high for real people to pay just for "a next year's phone" .....

TSMC is spending $14 billion per year of Apple dollars and their own dollars to continue pushing smaller and smaller and smaller on a firm, yearly Apple schedule.   This money flow may end with 5nm because Apple doesn't have it to spend due to a "bad selling season".

No one has brought forth any plans for anything past 3nm as 3nm "gate all around" is really pushing all known silicon technologies to the wall, completely.

Before Intel makes their next proposed attempt at a very very belated 10nm production run all their 3 main competitors will have their 7nm up and running production and their 5nm developmental processes will be making memory just as fast as they can run it during production debugging.

Intel is going to be ~ Four TSMC Generations ~ back by the end of next year.

Grin      (that's like 12 Intel generations, if you counted generations the way Intel counts them, of course)
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« Last Edit: 05/01/18 at 17:54:07 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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