Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Wide open woes (Read 315 times)
Shrulk
Junior Member
**
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 59

Wide open woes
02/13/18 at 13:03:43
 
Hello all, noob here. I've searched a ton of pages while waiting for my account to be approved. 01 savage stutters bad and starts getting choppy at anything over 1/2 throttle. Doesn't matter the gear. The bike is modified with big open air filter and a shorty baffled turn out exhuast off the header pipe. I've tried jets and fresh gas. Have a raptor petcock on the way as well as a carb rebuild kit. This has me completely stumped. It starts great and will free rev as high as you want it to. Nothing seems to change this issue. At idle to 1/2 throttle under load is good and peppy. Any help and ideas are appreciated.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Wide open woes
Reply #1 - 02/13/18 at 15:16:14
 
You only have two problems 1) your air cleaner is mounted right on the carb. 2)you've replaced the stock muffler with something worse. Don't feel bad it's a been done by lot's of newbees. Your exhaust is doesn't give the needed back pressure the motor requires,so you have mid range sag , it acting like a straight pipe ,and that's very hard to tune the carb to. Read up on it in the Tech Section .(On the right when you come on the site).
Back to top
 
 

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
sawkuh
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 17

Re: Wide open woes
Reply #2 - 02/13/18 at 16:13:02
 
Id agree with above, based on the brief description.  With that air cleaner and exhaust air is coming and going with ease.  Id start with the question "what jets are in the carb?"  If its the stock jet (147.5 I think) it's a no brainer where you need to start.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Gary_in_NJ
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

LS650 Cafe Racer

Posts: 2625
Amongst the Twisty Roads
Re: Wide open woes
Reply #3 - 02/13/18 at 17:16:25
 
We need more info. More then likely it's a carb issue, but we need to know your jets, needle position, where you live, the condition of the air cleaner and what your oil smells like.
Back to top
 
 

A life-time student of motorcycling.
LS650 Cafe, DRZ400SM, FZ6N, SV650S, CB900C, Ducati ST2, CB550F-SS
My LS650=> http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Left.JPG
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Wide open woes
Reply #4 - 02/13/18 at 22:41:38
 
It starts where everyone doing mods should. with the exhaust. the motor has to be able to breath out before it can breath in. One of the most important factors is the length of the header pipe which is 32"(stock) this gives us a torque peak a 3400rpm.(mid range). with the muffler he running it acts to extend the header (there is no solid baffle in it's center) ,short headers run better at higher rpm ,long headers perform better at lower rpm. that's why is bike runs good until he hits mid range (40 mph ) then sags ,his " header" is now about a foot longer., and falls outside the limit of normal for a 650cc motor which is 30' to a max of34'', a normal muffler provides a larger space at the end of the header ,that provides the proper length for wave tuning which can also add hp at certain rpms but that is also dependent on a header length of 32  " not 44 ".I don't think He 's aware of the spacer mod ,nor has he gone to larger jets , so he's experiencing a lean sag at mid range.he may put larger jets in and be rid of the sag but I think his mileage will take a big hit.
Back to top
 
 

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
Shrulk
Junior Member
**
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 59

Re: Wide open woes
Reply #5 - 02/13/18 at 23:22:30
 
The air filter is not directly on the carb, it's on about 10 inches of tubing to make the filter sit behind th battery box and off to the side. The jets currently are 55 pilot and 150 main with the white spacer put back in. I've tried  147.5, 150, 152.5 and 155 main jets as well as trying to do the spacer mod with the washers from the ryca jet set. 1st tried all 3 then tried 2 with very little change so I put the white spacer in for the purpose of trouble shooting. This issue isn't like the normal no more power because it flows to much, it's more like it's not getting enough fuel. I've tried running on PRI and ON with no changes. As soon as the carb rebuild kit shows up I'll be blowing every little orifice out.  The oil is fresh just changed it when I did the head bolt hole plug non sense
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Yoshi
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 865
LongIsland, N.Y.
Gender: male
Re: Wide open woes
Reply #6 - 02/14/18 at 03:08:27
 
The stock petcock could go bad, have you upgraded to a raptor petcock yet?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Gary_in_NJ
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

LS650 Cafe Racer

Posts: 2625
Amongst the Twisty Roads
Re: Wide open woes
Reply #7 - 02/14/18 at 05:41:44
 
Get your new petcock installed and see if the problem clears. Also, if you have an in line fuel filter installed, remove it.
Back to top
 
 

A life-time student of motorcycling.
LS650 Cafe, DRZ400SM, FZ6N, SV650S, CB900C, Ducati ST2, CB550F-SS
My LS650=> http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Left.JPG
  IP Logged
verslagen1
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28732
L.A. California
Gender: male
Re: Wide open woes
Reply #8 - 02/14/18 at 07:10:22
 
Shrulk wrote on 02/13/18 at 13:03:43:
Hello all, noob here. I've searched a ton of pages while waiting for my account to be approved. 01 savage stutters bad and starts getting choppy at anything over 1/2 throttle. Doesn't matter the gear. The bike is modified with big open air filter and a shorty baffled turn out exhuast off the header pipe. I've tried jets and fresh gas. Have a raptor petcock on the way as well as a carb rebuild kit. This has me completely stumped. It starts great and will free rev as high as you want it to. Nothing seems to change this issue. At idle to 1/2 throttle under load is good and peppy. Any help and ideas are appreciated.

The raptorcock will probably fix you up.
Here's what happens with a free flowing air filter and exhaust... your vacuum goes to hell at about 1/2 throttle and won't hold the petcock open.
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Shrulk
Junior Member
**
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 59

Re: Wide open woes
Reply #9 - 02/14/18 at 08:27:17
 
Raptor thingy is on its way, no inline filter. I appreciate the help so far amd look fprward to sharing my build and learning more about these bikes. I read that the slide is vacuum operated so I have a bit of a hunch between the loss of vacuum, weak petcock and older carb these ideas will help. I will check out the diaphragm on the side of the card when I do the rebuild. Hopefully not have to spend $100+ on a new slide. Mine looks a little worn
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Wide open woes
Reply #10 - 02/14/18 at 08:56:33
 
I'm going to guess that if he's run the petcock on pri. while trying all those jets and the spacer mods,without any change, that the raptor isn't going to help.but a decent muffler would.
Back to top
 
 

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 17730
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: Wide open woes
Reply #11 - 02/14/18 at 09:01:01
 
One of the interesting traits of the low powered Savage, is that when cruising at highways speeds you can actually get into a situation where you have the throttle open far enough that the main jet is working for extended periods.  (Most cars, trucks and motorcycles have so much power that they are only using a fraction of the available power at steady cruising speeds).

When the throttle is opened more than 1/2 and you are using the main jet circuit - it requires a number of things to be working properly.  Fuel flow needs to be steady (petcock, fuel line, float needle/seat, fuel tank vent), the carb circuits need to be clean and the jetting properly sized, the ignition system (spark plug, coil, ignition box, battery, charging circuit) needs to be able to provide a good spark, and the air cleaner needs to be able to provide the needed air supply.

Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
Shrulk
Junior Member
**
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 59

Re: Wide open woes
Reply #12 - 02/14/18 at 09:44:50
 
I did drain the tank a few days ago to check the filter screen on the petcock and used the PRI set to g and seemed to only drain at about half the flow I was expecting even when I pulled the fuel cap. Maybe a dumb question here but if I leave the petcock on PRI while it just sits for days will that cause the carb to leak or or not. It doesn't as of now so I'd assume the float is working right? I hav pulled the fuel bowl a few times after it setting so I could change jets and the bowl is only about half full. Sorry for so so many questions
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Wide open woes
Reply #13 - 02/14/18 at 10:49:50
 
While it would be a good idea to check the float height, ,a half full bowl level sounds normal ,the  jets and the float taking up the rest of the room in the bowl. your float valve is holding or you would have gas coming out the vent lines.
Back to top
 
 

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: Wide open woes
Reply #14 - 02/16/18 at 10:29:00
 
The stock Petcock is known to cause difficult to understand problems.
The Raptor is cheap and easy to install.
The fuel level can be checked with a piece of tubing on the nipple on the bowl drain, held up next to the bowl.
The fuel should be at the top of the bowl.
If it's slow to fill and low in the first place, you're gonna be spitting and sputtering at open throttle settings.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
03/28/24 at 03:04:38



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › Wide open woes


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.