Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Exhaust design (Read 282 times)
sandmanred
Senior Member
****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 284

Exhaust design
02/07/18 at 19:46:24
 
I'm thinking about going with a short exhaust with an internal baffle something along the lines of this sketch.  I did pipes with baffles on another bike and kept the stock jets by adjusting the baffles to get the plugs to look right.  Any performance concerns or suggestions in trying the same thing with the Savage?

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Exhaust design
Reply #1 - 02/07/18 at 23:36:54
 
Stock header length for the bike is 32"  the range for a 650 cc bike should run between 30-34"  shorter pipes favor higher rpm ,longer favor lower. You should design for the rpm range you'll be riding at most of the time . You might run a short pipe under the motor with a square muffler , I think I've seen these on Ryca Sportster kits. What you've planned looks to be very short which might be OK for WOT but produce a bag sag in midrange , and dumping in front of you might not be great for your hearing.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 02/08/18 at 01:20:59 by batman »  

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
ohiomoto
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 2776

Re: Exhaust design
Reply #2 - 02/08/18 at 06:31:36
 
I'm not seeing the sketch???
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18101
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: Exhaust design
Reply #3 - 02/08/18 at 06:52:12
 
You aren't really looking for an engine that makes top HP......so you can try a short exhaust and see what happens.  The issue that I see is that with such a short system, there is very little room to do an pulse dampening and almost anything you try is going to be pretty loud.
Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
sandmanred
Senior Member
****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 284

Re: Exhaust design
Reply #4 - 02/08/18 at 08:42:37
 
ohiomoto wrote on 02/08/18 at 06:31:36:
I'm not seeing the sketch???


There seems to a problem with postimage, all my pics on all posts are not showing right now  Huh
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18101
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: Exhaust design
Reply #5 - 02/08/18 at 08:43:35
 
I can see the photo/sketch on my computer....here it is using tinypic.

Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
sandmanred
Senior Member
****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 284

Re: Exhaust design
Reply #6 - 02/08/18 at 08:53:43
 
Dave wrote on 02/08/18 at 06:52:12:
You aren't really looking for an engine that makes top HP......so you can try a short exhaust and see what happens.  The issue that I see is that with such a short system, there is very little room to do an pulse dampening and almost anything you try is going to be pretty loud.


Can I compensate for short length with a different diameter or anything else?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18101
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: Exhaust design
Reply #7 - 02/08/18 at 09:02:15
 
For performance, you want the exhaust to go out the header with a high velocity, and that rushing exhaust helps to scavenge the burned fuel out of the cylinder.....and it may even help to allow some movement of fresh fuel/air as the intake valve opens.  If the rushing exhaust has no place to go before it is restricted, or if you make a large diameter pipe that reduces the velocity of the exhaust flow.....the efficiency of the system is reduced.

Compared to all the other work you have done....fabricating a trial exhaust system (or 3) is pretty minor.  I think you just need to build something that looks good.....and see if the bike will run with it.
(The Board Track headers you are trying to copy were used on motorcycles that ran wide open and were unmuffled........not really acceptable for a modern street bike).
Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
Fast 650
Senior Member
****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 405
Valrico, FL
Gender: male
Re: Exhaust design
Reply #8 - 02/08/18 at 09:24:07
 
You can compensate somewhat with a smaller ID but there is a point where reducing the diameter creates enough restriction to hurt performance. With the stock pipe, 4500 rpm (about 70 mph) gives an exhaust velocity of over 320 fps. At some point the engine can't push the exhaust any faster and the pipe chokes power then.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
ohiomoto
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 2776

Re: Exhaust design
Reply #9 - 02/08/18 at 09:55:36
 
sandmanred wrote on 02/08/18 at 08:42:37:
ohiomoto wrote on 02/08/18 at 06:31:36:
I'm not seeing the sketch???
-------------------------------

There seems to a problem with postimage, all my pics on all posts are not showing right now  Huh
----------------------------


We cant' have that.  Fix it!  lol
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
ohiomoto
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 2776

Re: Exhaust design
Reply #10 - 02/08/18 at 10:11:26
 
I would think something like the stock header would work fine...it already fits with the engine.  If you want more length, throw some extra curves and wrap it around something.



Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18101
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: Exhaust design
Reply #11 - 02/08/18 at 10:22:29
 
The stock header does work fine....with a muffler on the end.

Open and/or drag pipes are know to create a flat spot or sag at certain rpm's in the mid-range.

(Something that didn't bother folks riding real board trackers that ran wide open all the time.....they didn't even have a clutch or a gearbox).
Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
LANCER
Serious Thumper
Alliance Member
*****
Offline

Savage Beast
Performance Parts

Posts: 10668
Oklahoma
Gender: male
Re: Exhaust design
Reply #12 - 02/08/18 at 11:09:17
 
Fast 650 wrote on 02/08/18 at 09:24:07:
You can compensate somewhat with a smaller ID but there is a point where reducing the diameter creates enough restriction to hurt performance. With the stock pipe, 4500 rpm (about 70 mph) gives an exhaust velocity of over 320 fps. At some point the engine can't push the exhaust any faster and the pipe chokes power then.



What is the formula you are using to figure fps ?
Are the variables just pipe length, ID and engine rpm ?
Or are there more for this particular formula ?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
batman
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 3806
osceola new york
Gender: male
Re: Exhaust design
Reply #13 - 02/08/18 at 18:29:01
 
It might pay to know that there are two components leaving the exhaust pipe ,exhaust gases which move more slowly, and a  pressure wave that starts when the valve first opens that can travel at the speed of sound. It is this pressure wave that forms the basis for tuning the exhaust ,and the length of the header pipe. when the pressure wave reaches the end of the header it expands and moves backup the pipe as a negative pressure and if it arrives to find the exhaust valve open it can help pull out some of the remaining exhaust gases as well as pull in a fresh charge due to valve overlap . the return  speed of the wave is slowed by the fact that as the gases move down the pipe they cool .Shorter pipes favor high rpm , which is why they were used on board trackers running at WOT.  Using a stepped exhaust pipe increasing in size as it get farther from the head would allow the gases to expand and cool  slowing the wave and might help in shorting the header length so it might work better at lower rpm , but the noise would ,without a muffler ,still be painful . As a test place the stock header on with no muffler and run the bike (wear ear plugs!) Running a "lollypop" baffle may help reduce mid range sag by breaking up the returning wave ,but overall performance will suffer.
Back to top
 
 

my old work mates called me MacGyver
  IP Logged
Fast 650
Senior Member
****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 405
Valrico, FL
Gender: male
Re: Exhaust design
Reply #14 - 02/09/18 at 07:56:54
 
Lancer, I found the calculation online some time ago. It is in an xls spreadsheet. Here it is if you want to play around with it. Just input the bore and stroke in inches, rpm, and the pipe diameter and it gives you gas velocity and piston speed.
Back to top
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
10/02/24 at 19:36:08



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › Exhaust design


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.