target: generation hipster/snowflake !

Put the V-Rod engine into a sport touring bike instead of a cruiser, revive the sport or adventure bikes that Buell was building (including a bike like the Blast), make a naked street bike that can corner and has some decent performance....and maybe you could get new customers.

After 50 or 6o years of building and upgrading the same old bikes....most folks who want a Sportster or big V-Twin have already bought one (or are getting great deals on lightly used ones).

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Exactly. I think that that's a big part of their problem right now. New HD's are too expensive compared to the really attractive prices of low mileage, excellent condition, used ones right now. HD is competing with itself in it's market niche. My Sportster is 13 years old, looks good, runs fine and hasn't given me a bit of trouble since I've owned it. I paid 3500 dollars for it a few years ago. Probably more than I should have, but it was a trade in that I bought from a dealer.  Craigslist it full of bikes just like mine in the same price range or less. Compare that to the 10 thousand or so OTD price of  a brand new version of essentially the exact same motorcycle and I think the problem is obvious.

I know quite a few guys that own Harleys. I don't know anyone who owns a NEW Harley.

I also think HD blew it badly when they introduced the Street models hoping to attract entry level riders to the brand. During the first couple of model years, those bikes got panned in the motorcycle press for some pretty significant issues, most notably really lousy brakes, and some fit and finish deficiencies. The Streets also had a fuel system recall that didn't help its reputation any. Those things have been rectified now, and the Street Rod version is a pretty nice bike IMO, but I think the damage is done.

The 2018 Softails with the new frame and the M8 engine are a step in the right direction, but again, they cost too much, and they aren't likely to attract many new riders into the fold.

Harley's problem is that all their bikes look like Harleys!!

And . . . they handle like Harleys!!

Harley's A hundred years behind the times and that's the way they like it. They could have offset the cylinders for better cooling(Yamaha Virago)and used two connecting rods in the same plane to preserve the "Harley sound", they could have gotten rid of the cast iron motor much earlier, they could have done a lot but sat on the hands . Now everyone else builds a better bike and sells it for half as much, who's to blame. If I didn't want a jap bike I 'd be looking at a Triumph ,has anyone checked out their new bobber?

I'm hoping that HD can design and develop a product that will see them through for the next 100 years.

Then reality hits me and I realize that HD has the engineering know-how, but lacks the marketing wherewithal.

The buyer of this product has never owned a HD and would never own one. The brand has tarnished itself for motorcyclists not in the pirate/outlaw dress-up club. It will take two things for HD to succeed with the Livewire:

1. An outstanding product. One that isn't aspirational, but obtainable, and
2. An outreach to the community at large without pretense that "we are HD".

Number 2 is going to be their problem.

batman wrote on 02/05/18 at 08:32:48:



I was looking online at the Triumph bobber the other day. Great looking bike! The faux hardtail was cool.

However the big radiator on the front puts me off!