SuzukiSavage.com - Charging system

Gary_in_NJ

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Re: Charging system
Reply #15 - 01/23/18 at 06:16:53

Batman, take a chill.

First off, the DRZ community calls it a "free Power" mod, not a free energy mod. Secondly, I put it in quotes and noted that there actually isn't any additional power behind this mod, but just a more efficient routing of power.

On the DRZ (and I believe the LS) the DC power leaves the R/R on 14ga. wires and then is spliced into the harness which is mostly 18ga. This reduction in wire gauge creates resistance and a voltage drop. By running the 14ga. R/R wires directly to the battery more of the current available from the R/R reaches the battery, and is therefore available to the entire DC power bus as reserve capacity.

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batman

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Re: Charging system
Reply #16 - 01/23/18 at 09:29:14

I give up! There is no reserve capacity ! Amps x volts =watts (power) If for example the output of our alternator was 10 amps at 14 volts it would produce 140 watts of power in your scenario we would have 140watts delivered to the battery at 14.5 volts . 140 watts divided by 14.5=9.655 amps , not 10amps there is
no Free ride ! the mod is a waste of time ! It has an other downfall as well. If you have a weak or dying cell in the battery and are miles from home, unable to restart your bike ,and you find someone to give your bike a jump to get it started you can drive the bike home using the power from the alternator, rather than push it (ask me how I know),with your mod all juice has to come from the battery ,even if you start the bike, you'll be lucky to drive a couple of miles until the battery dies yet again ,leaving you the pleasant chore of pushing it the rest of the way home .

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« Last Edit: 01/23/18 at 12:38:00 by batman »

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Armen

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Re: Charging system
Reply #17 - 01/24/18 at 03:19:07

Batman,
I get the energy lost theory, but the reality is when thinner wires are used, there is more resistance. The wires with more resistance use some of the energy produced to make heat. So, chubbier, shorter wires waste less heat because they aren't as hot.
I've done a bunch of voltage drop tests on bikes and a lot of times I see more than 1 VDC drop between the battery and wherever the juice is being used. A combination of corroded connections and thin wires. I did a chubby wires swap on a 900SS Duc and picked up over 1 volt at the starter by switching to heavier battery and starter leads.
Had a 700 Nighthawk with starting/running problems that was only seeing 8 volts at the ignitor, despite having 12.7 at the battery. Miles of wire and tons of crappy connections between the battery and the ignitor. Lots of work, and the bike was happy again.

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Gary_in_NJ

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Re: Charging system
Reply #18 - 01/24/18 at 12:34:43

batman wrote on 01/23/18 at 09:29:14:
There is no reserve capacity

What do you think the battery is? When Watts Consumed > Watt Available on the DC power bus, then the battery becomes the reserve. That's what batteries do, they store electrons to be used later - the very definition of "reserve".

If you have a higher voltage going to the battery, it recharges faster from a starting events, or for those times when Watts Consumed > Watt Available.

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batman

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Re: Charging system
Reply #19 - 01/24/18 at 12:52:23

Armen ,I have no doubt that larger wires will produce less voltage drop, but do you want to rewire your harness with welding cable ? I believe the wire size used on the bike is a mix of size to carry load safely and manufacturing costs. the fact that the wire may not do the job as well as larger wire is compensated by the fact that the voltage from the alternator(14-15.5) is higher than the voltage needed by anything on the bike (12v.) allowing for the line drop. The fact that even in stock mod the battery charges to about 12.7 volts , shows that after all the needs of the bike are meet there is still voltage and amps left to do the job.

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GT61 TURBO ZX14 Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 230 Minnesota Gender:	Re: Charging system Reply #20 - 01/24/18 at 13:03:18 Just got more parts
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GT61 TURBO ZX14 Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 230 Minnesota Gender:	Re: Charging system Reply #21 - 01/24/18 at 13:03:49
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GT61 TURBO ZX14 Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 230 Minnesota Gender:	Re: Charging system Reply #22 - 01/24/18 at 13:04:12
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Re: Charging system
Reply #23 - 01/24/18 at 13:11:52

batman wrote on 01/24/18 at 12:52:23:

Armen ,I have no doubt that larger wires will produce less voltage drop, but do you want to rewire your harness with welding cable ? I believe the wire size used on the bike is a mix of size to carry load safely and manufacturing costs. the fact that the wire may not do the job as well as larger wire is compensated by the fact that the voltage from the alternator(14-15.5) is higher than the voltage needed by anything on the bike (12v.) allowing for the line drop. The fact that even in stock mod the battery charges to about 12.7 volts , shows that after all the needs of the bike are meet there is still voltage and amps left to do the job.

One might consider enlarging the wiring to the TCI (AKA CDI) and Coil to get a better spark at startup.
10v at the bat will be knocked down more at the TCI and coil.
It does have to run all the way to the right control, then the left, and safeties before the wick can be lit.

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GT61 TURBO ZX14 Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 230 Minnesota Gender:	Re: Charging system Reply #24 - 01/24/18 at 13:40:33 I will let you know what I do with the bike
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batman Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3806 osceola new york Gender:	Re: Charging system Reply #25 - 01/24/18 at 15:20:00 Vercy , Do you think a rise in voltage into the TCI would have an effect on the signal coming into the TCI that retards the timing at startup? I haven't a clue.
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Re: Charging system
Reply #26 - 01/24/18 at 15:41:46

batman wrote on 01/24/18 at 15:20:00:

Vercy , Do you think a rise in voltage into the TCI would have an effect on the signal coming into the TCI that retards the timing at startup? I haven't a clue.

No, the signal from the starter to the TCI retards timing.
But there is a point where there isn't enough power to run the TCI/coil and if it has to go thru several feet of skinny wire and several bad connections and a big current draw like the headlight... you haven't got a chance in hell that you're getting even 10v at the TCI/coil on stock wiring.

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batman Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3806 osceola new york Gender:	Re: Charging system Reply #27 - 01/24/18 at 17:10:45 Vercy ,I have a 95 ,it doesn't have the headlight cut out relay, my light is on when my bike starts the light dims when the starter is engaged but the bike never fails to start. If the bike starts an there is less than 10v then we must assume the ignition fires at a lower voltage. we assumed more than 10v but that is at the battery.
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Gary_in_NJ Serious Thumper Offline LS650 Cafe Racer Posts: 2633 Amongst the Twisty Roads	Re: Charging system Reply #28 - 01/24/18 at 17:17:35 I don't think that the Savage has a charging issue. Mr Horsepower is looking for a way to increase available current. I shared what works on a platform (DRZ) that operates at or near the limits of its capability. For many DRZ pilots that extra 0.5v matters.
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batman Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3806 osceola new york Gender:	Re: Charging system Reply #29 - 01/24/18 at 17:26:01 Gray Of course batteries are a reserve ,but a 200amp battery holds 200 amps when it is fully charged where does the power go that's being generated by the alternator? it's wasted to ground .You can't build higher capacity without a larger battery.
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