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Why did suzuki bother with a 5th gear (Read 391 times)
eau de sauvage
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Why did suzuki bother with a 5th gear
01/06/18 at 03:09:17
 
Switching between 4th and top is barely noticeable. What could be the possible reason for not making it taller so you could you know actually cruise on the cruiser without your eyeballs falling out of their sockets?
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Re: Why did suzuki bother with a 5th gear
Reply #1 - 01/06/18 at 03:32:35
 
We have pondered this situation on this forum for years....and all we can do is grumble about it.  We have even looked for a 5th gear set from another bike that could be used.....we found nothin'.

If you change to a taller gearing by using the Kawasaki front pulley or go to chain/sprockets - the small gap between 4th and 5th gear becomes more noticeable, and 5th does become a nice highway cruise gear.
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Re: Why did suzuki bother with a 5th gear
Reply #2 - 01/06/18 at 04:18:28
 
In my humble opinion, the Savage is not really very good at interstate type travel, due to other design flaws.  It doesn't seem real stable at those speeds.  However, I do wish the 5th gear ration was a bit higher.  But... I also wish first gear were a bit lower.

For me, if I had my druthers, based upon the riding that I do,  I would opt for a lower first gear first.

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Re: Why did suzuki bother with a 5th gear
Reply #3 - 01/06/18 at 16:18:02
 
I think Suzuki may have based 5th gear on the fact that if it were taller, the bike having low hp ,might not be able to handle even mild hills without down shifting to 4th often. The fact that 5th is only about 250 rpm lower ( at WOT) , makes down shifting unneeded in most cases.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Why did suzuki bother with a 5th gear
Reply #4 - 01/06/18 at 17:10:31
 
Without the fifth gear I wouldn't be trying to shift into sixth.
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Re: Why did suzuki bother with a 5th gear
Reply #5 - 01/06/18 at 17:26:43
 
I have both Kaw pulleys and a 150/90 15 Kenda 230 on the rear, dropping my rpm at 60mph from 4100 down to 3400 in fifth gear.
Going from Fla to Western NY and back the last 2 years I rarely have had to downshift to 4th to maintain 65-70 on the Interstate. My 4th gear is very close to the stock 5th.
That is riding solo with loaded hard bags and a box on the back, pushing a BIG windshield.  
Now riding double and loaded heavy with ''riding buddies'' on 1200 sport bikes, you WILL feel like a turtle!
I feel Suzuki made and markets this bike as a ''entry level'' cruser for smaller people and girls that can not handle a 900lb bike, riding or stopped. I have built mine into a small ''bagger.''If the designers saw my bike and heard how I ride it, they would just shake their heads! My friend in NY is a dealer and can't believe how I ride this bike. Said he has only seen 2 with over 15k on them. (but he does NOT read this forum)
I think if our 5th gears had one tooth swapped, and they sold this bike with a solo seat,,,,,,,,,,,hummmm.
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Re: Why did suzuki bother with a 5th gear
Reply #6 - 01/06/18 at 18:15:04
 
So what year-model Kaw. are the front and rear pulleys from  ?
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Re: Why did suzuki bother with a 5th gear
Reply #7 - 01/06/18 at 18:28:19
 
A very interesting point Badwolf, I've never carried a pillion and given the amount of "bobbing" done by owners, it would appear that a majority of people here ride solo. Even the front pulley mod might help stop the eternal search for sixth. However, we must wonder how much longer Suzuki will continue to produce the bike in view of more stringent emission requirements in the developed western world. I also note that Yamaha does a solo version of their Bolt.
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Re: Why did suzuki bother with a 5th gear
Reply #8 - 01/06/18 at 20:04:03
 
Neither of the pulleys ( 25 + 65 ) are bolt-on. They need lathe work to adapt. Dave here does some front pulleys from time to time and sells them in the marketplace. Just the front 25 tooth and a 140/90 15 rear tire will make a huge difference, and is pretty easy and reversible if you don't like them. I would not push anyone to go with both pulleys and 150 tire unless they run a LOT of Interstate.
There is also the option of chain conversion.  That is pretty easy and gives you a huge choice of gearing, and is easy to switch for trips, or around town.  You get the extra maintenance of a chain, but the new ones aren't too bad, and should last 20k or so.
Before you commit to big tall gears, remember you are raising ALL the gears, not just 5th. Ride around for at least a week without using 1st gear. If you aren't comfortable starting in 2nd you don't want to go with a really tall gear.  I live in South Fla and it is FLAT here, a occasional trip to the mountains doesn't bother me, as I have over 40k on this gearing and am used to it. I bought another S-40 and when I test rode it it seemed low. I am not sure why some guys want a lower 1st.
Another big concern is your speedo. Ours runs of the output shaft of the tranny, not the front wheel like most bikes. Mine was 23% off with the tall gearing and big tire. You can swap the front wheel and get a speedo off whatever you used, or I went with a GPS unit. Works great, as long as it can ''see'' the sky. Not so good in tunnels. It sometimes goes wierd passing under bridges or underpasses, but comes right back online when you are back in the open.
MMRanch does some big trips with a lot of Interstate with a 25 tooth front pulley and a 140/90 15 rear tire. (last I saw him) He has gotten used to it. (but now he has bought a Guzzi, so we will see which he rides the most)
For what it was intended, I think the S-40 does what it is suppose to. BUT, a LITTLE taller 5th gear would be a improvement for most of it's riders.
If you want what you want, it is a pretty easy chunk of raw material to start with!
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Re: Why did suzuki bother with a 5th gear
Reply #9 - 01/06/18 at 22:02:51
 
Thanks badwolf.
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Re: Why did suzuki bother with a 5th gear
Reply #10 - 01/06/18 at 22:40:39
 
The answer
In a word

Marketing

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Re: Why did suzuki bother with a 5th gear
Reply #11 - 01/07/18 at 03:31:51
 
Like Badwolf......I run both front and rear Kawasaki pulleys on my bike.

Unlike Badwolf.....my bike is a stripped down Cafe' with a Wiseco piston, cam, head work, Mikuni carb - and the extra power pulls the gearing really well.  1st gear is tall - if a stock bike goes 9mph at idle in 1st gear mine will go about 12mph.....it is like starting out in 2nd gear but since I don't ride double or have a windshield or bags it is no problem.  My bike will outrun most Savage bikes (except Verslagen's Beast and Lancer's Rex and maybe Ruttly's bike....anyone that has done the piston/cam/carb swap is going to be running much better than a stock bike), and my bike can loaf along at 75mph in high gear all day long and never break a sweat. The taller gearing has dropped the head temperature on the bike 20 degrees at interstate cruising speeds, as well as making the ride feel far more relaxed with the lower engine rpm.   High gear is too tall for obtaining maximum speed - if I want to explore going fast it has to be done in 4th.

I do buy used front Kawasaki pulleys and machine them to fit, and I should have some available by the end of January.  The front pulley works fine with the stock engine, and it is a worthwhile improvement.  It should take you about an hour to install the pulley, and the only special tools you need is a Dremel and a large socket and torque wrench.

I also have a couple of rear pulleys I have machined.....I haven't yet sold a rear pulley to anyone, as it requires a lot of machine work and won't be real cheap.  I have to machine some width off the rear pulley hub and then I install a bushing to eliminate the pulley wobble that is inherent in the sock design, I have to bore new mounting holes in the Kawasaki pulley, and the rear shock bolt needs to be modified for clearance.  I also make a small cover that goes over the pulley mounting area to cover the original holes...this really isn't necessary as it is only a cosmetic touch.  Then everything is powder coated and it includes mounting bolts that have been re-plated.  The double pulley setup will slow the acceleration of a stock engine down considerably - but a modified engine pulls it just fine.

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Re: Why did suzuki bother with a 5th gear
Reply #12 - 01/08/18 at 13:27:37
 
Dave

 Does this front pulley work with a stock belt?  Speed is unimportant to me.  Just cruse on my chopper version.

Regards, Bobber
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Re: Why did suzuki bother with a 5th gear
Reply #13 - 01/08/18 at 13:32:46
 
Bobber wrote on 01/08/18 at 13:27:37:
Dave
Does this front pulley work with a stock belt?  Speed is unimportant to me.  Just cruse on my chopper version.



Yes - it uses the stock belt....it does require that you move the axle adjustment all the way forward.

If you just cruise at speed of 60 mph or less.....you most likely don't need the pulley.  If you like to cruise at 70 and over.....the lower gearing makes for a more relaxed experience.
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Re: Why did suzuki bother with a 5th gear
Reply #14 - 01/09/18 at 06:17:45
 
Dave wrote on 01/08/18 at 13:32:46:
Bobber wrote on 01/08/18 at 13:27:37:
Dave
Does this front pulley work with a stock belt?  Speed is unimportant to me.  Just cruse on my chopper version.



Yes - it uses the stock belt....it does require that you move the axle adjustment all the way forward.

If you just cruise at speed of 60 mph or less.....you most likely don't need the pulley.  If you like to cruise at 70 and over.....the lower gearing makes for a more relaxed experience.


Mine running stock seems to move along just fine at 60 to 65 in 5th gear - engine seems to be smooth at that speed.
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