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Big Bore Bobber Build (Read 3221 times)
Christof13T
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Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #30 - 11/26/17 at 10:29:48
 
and one more...

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Christof13T
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Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #31 - 11/29/17 at 07:02:36
 
We have put 125 miles on it over the last few days. The build seems to be holding together beautifully. The sewing machine like consistency of the rotating assembly and valve train chorus the steady meat of the exhaust thumping the ground beneath your feet. The thump of the higher compression is blatantly more noticeable at every point your body makes contact with the dragon in flight. It has become more beast than machine...

My better half has put most of the new miles on the clock. Yesterday was our 3rd time out riding with it... and her 3rd time riding a bike in 15+ years. I figured break in would coincide with a "new" rider just fine. The thing now has ... well to be honest... just stoopid gobs of turn you inside out power. But it is AMAZINGLY controllable. As she is getting more confident in her abilities and mor comfortable with the bike... The throttle gets a little more extra roll a little more often. The few times she has really got on it, I could not keep up with her on my YZF600R. When she is fully confident to full throttle drag launch I am betting the Savage will straight up smoke me on the Thundercat. My Kitty is pushing at this point around 120+ at 600lbs and I'm 168lbs.

I know they shouldn't be any where near the final numbers after break in but I will take it up and fill the tank again after the ride on the fresh fill up yesterday of 50 miles and get an estimate of efficiency.

A light tan/gold discoloration is starting to show on the pipe but no new blue spots from what I didn't get when I buffed it down with a scotch brite rolock pad.

I am absolutely blown away by the differences in how this bike now feels and acts. Just lowering my seat position was an absolutely game changing improvement. I was limited by the semi hunched over position the stock seat left me in to about 100 miles or so before my back was just done. In the new position I feel comfortable taking this bike cross country. With a 6" push on the controls to stretch my legs out I could live on it lol! She is even yelling for forward controls lol.

I have a bunch of square and round bar stock laying around... and she did mention something about "bones" lol... I might have to fire up the forge and pound something out...

Also...
like maybe a p.s. kinda thing...

If you found yourself in the situation where you could get your hands on a 1996 LS650 with 20k on the clock or so... been sitting in a barn for a decade or so... no inspection covers on the valve cover but everything looks to be there... no title... Might could get it for like 50-100$


Is it possible to get a title for something like that in Texas without like offering up your first born for ransom or something back-woodsy? Tongue

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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #32 - 11/29/17 at 09:37:01
 
Just walk in the local DPS office and ask them where to go. They helped me get a title. Took about no time.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Christof13T
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Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #33 - 11/29/17 at 11:23:16
 
I may jump on it for the right $.

I just filled up the tank from the 50 miles clocked on it yesterday and it took .94 gal.  That puts it at a preliminary efficiency of 53.19 miles per gallon at an average of 47mph simulated city traffic.
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batman
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Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #34 - 12/01/17 at 19:30:44
 
Don't blame the bike ,doing 75 on a highway ,getting on it hard enough that you couldn't keep up on a YZF600r(how many times?) is not really the way to brake in a new and even higher compression piston, not until you've babied it at least 500miles ,should you even attempt WOT or speeds much higher than 50ish. Speeds should be changed often and held steady for only brief periods of time. I'd hope that the damage to the piston ,cylinder and rings is light and might be repaired easily .good luck.
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batman
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Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #35 - 12/01/17 at 21:43:41
 
Just for fun, what octane gas and what oil were you running at the time the bike messed up?
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my old work mates called me MacGyver
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Dave
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Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #36 - 12/02/17 at 05:16:19
 
When I put in my Wiseco....the next 500 miles were at less than half throttle, and I never got over 50 or 60 mph.  It is really important that you allow the new piston and bored cylinder to break in properly.  You are the 3rd Wiseco failure that I am aware of - and all of them occurred at elevated speeds on a fresh bore.

On this next build keep the bike at low throttle and low speeds for 500 miles.....and let your wife break it in! Wink
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batman
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Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #37 - 12/03/17 at 15:26:44
 
Christof13t , If you really don't want to damage the bike again, you need to realize what you did the first time. You fried the piston. You've increased the compression to 10.5:1 ,raising combustion temp to about 4200 degrees and pressure to 1050 psi. @ close to your new peak torque about 3900rpm.Because the piston is shiny and new it has no coating of carbon (a very poor conductor of heat)to protect it, and it does form the bottom of the combustion chamber so becomes extremely hot(expands),the added friction of the rings scraping the cylinder as they wear in also adds to the heat. as the piston moves down in the power stroke the combustion gases expand and thus cool therefore the heat absorbed by the cylinder walls is less ( thus the cylinder expands less)and the piston clearance disappears the piston drags on the walls and is destroyed . At 3900 rpm (the torque peak ) your speed will  be 59mph,combustion 10.5;1  and combustion temp high , speeds nearing and beyond this point should be avoided  as well as high rpm in lower gears(jack rabbit starts ) at all costs , even 50 mph(or any speed) should not be held for very long times if damage is to be avoided. Around town riding may be the order of the day if the bike isn't idled to long.
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smokin_blue
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Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #38 - 12/03/17 at 16:42:29
 
Christof13T wrote on 12/02/17 at 06:10:46:
[

So...
Removing aluminum melted smears from a cast iron cylinder...

I have successfully removed loaded up aluminum from carbide endmills that were so bad you could not really tell you were looking at an endmill by using drain cleaners... I read on here about muratic acid... Also read about folks falling back to cave man techniques and scrubbing it off with scotch brite...  I would prefer to reduce the chances of causing any further damage to the cylinder ... again ... lol So what would you try first?





Back when I worked in the Suzuki shop we always used muratic acid.

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Dave
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Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #39 - 12/04/17 at 05:15:51
 
May I suggest ------- Keep it Simple?

With Bore Tech no longer being an entity.....the 94mm Wiseco option  is now so much more appealing.  It fits the stock jug with nothing more than a light honing to allow the the rings to seat.

The 94mm Wiseco still makes a good bump in power as a result of the increase in compression.

Fooling around with exotic metals most likely isn't going to get you anywhere....cast iron is a really good material for cylinders - they have been using it succesfully for 150 years or more!  
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LANCER
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Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #40 - 12/04/17 at 18:43:19
 
Dave wrote on 12/04/17 at 05:15:51:
May I suggest ------- Keep it Simple?

With Bore Tech no longer being an entity.....the 94mm Wiseco option  is now so much more appealing.  It fits the stock jug with nothing more than a light honing to allow the the rings to seat.

The 94mm Wiseco still makes a good bump in power as a result of the increase in compression.

Fooling around with exotic metals most likely isn't going to get you anywhere....cast iron is a really good material for cylinders - they have been using it succesfully for 150 years or more!  



Bore Tech no longer an entity ? ? 😳
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Dave
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Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #41 - 12/04/17 at 19:25:56
 
As of December 1st - Bill is no longer taking on any new work.
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batman
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Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #42 - 12/04/17 at 22:46:38
 
Orville and Wilbur weren't using their feet to transport themselves,  they owned a bicycle shop! Grin
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Dave
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Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #43 - 12/05/17 at 05:15:49
 
Using some exotic metal for a cylinder creates a lot of unknowns - and I only know enough about the issues to worry.  The metal needs to have very good heat transfer properties - as the heat in the piston must be carried away by the contact area between the piston  skirt and cylinder wall.  The stock piston has a lot of contact area..the Wiseco has far less contact area as it is somewhat of a slipper piston design.  The expansion rates of the exotic metal may be entirely different - and the clearance may need to be different than it would be for the stock cast iron liner.  The hardness of the exotic metal may not be compatible with the rings......they may not seat properly and/or they may wear excessively....or even create metal transfer issues.  Hopefully you could find somebody else that has used an alternate cylinder liner/sleeve and you won't be the pioneer in this area.

Youzguyz was able to go more than 150,000 miles with a stock piston and cylinder - and during the rebuild he discovered that only the rings needed replacement, as the piston and cylinder were still in spec.  I don't really see how you can improve on that......as it has proven to be extremely durable and reliable.

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batman
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Re: Big Bore Bobber Build
Reply #44 - 12/05/17 at 10:16:32
 
Dave has a point ,it seems the Rockwell hardness of Inconel runs around 30-40  ,gray iron (cast iron that can be bored) is 220 or a bit less, Inconel can only withstand temps of about 2000 degrees F , ignition temps in in gas engines run between 3000-5000 depending on combustion ratios . I'm not sure Inconel would be all that suitable as a cylinder liner.Being 50 -55% nickel ,I don't believe it would transfer heat as well as cast iron, and it's resistance to abrasion may not allow the piston rings to seat .
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« Last Edit: 12/05/17 at 18:57:10 by batman »  

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