SuzukiSavage.com - How do I tell which cam is which?

mpescatori

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How do I tell which cam is which?
10/13/17 at 00:23:23

Hi all,

through the years I have bought a few cams from lancer, and currently ride the Stage2 cam.

The OEM cam was nice and sweet down low but not very quick.

The Stage 2 cam is nice and quick in the high rpm range but commuting in stop&go traffic the engine becomes lumpy and won't go much below 3000rpm (I have a tach)

Then I bought a Stage 3 cam which is supposed to have all the lift of a Stage 2 plus the nice round mellow phase of the OEM cam.
BUT
I have the OEM and Stage 3 in one box and would like to know how to tell them one from the other.
Roll Eyes

Use a micrometer and measure the lobes?
Roll Eyes

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Ruttly Serious Thumper Offline Thumpers Rule Posts: 4997 Manteca , CA Gender:	Re: How do I tell which cam is which? Reply #1 - 10/13/17 at 03:33:47 Yes , larger/taller lobes have more lift would be the performance cam.
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Re: How do I tell which cam is which?
Reply #2 - 10/13/17 at 05:17:23

The Stock and Stage 1 cam will have the lowest Lift.....the Stage 2 cam has a higher lift and longer duration.

So......the cam with the thickest lobes will be the Stage 2 cam, and the Stage 2 will have the largest angle between lobes and likely have a broader width at the top of the lobes. It might be hard to tell which is which if you don't have them side by side to compare....and it may even be a bit technical to tell if you do have them side by side.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: How do I tell which cam is which? Reply #3 - 10/13/17 at 08:45:23 Dial calipers might help. Maybe roll them across a layer of Play Doh,,
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Re: How do I tell which cam is which?
Reply #4 - 10/13/17 at 09:04:08

LANCER wrote on 06/01/12 at 19:25:55:

PERFORMANCE CAMSHAFT

A camshaft defines the character of an engine.
The stock cam is mild mannered and easy going.
A Performance Camshaft does a quick change in the phone booth...different attitude altogether.

CAMSHAFT VALVE LIFT IN/EX DURATION @ .050

Stock camshaft .254/.244 224
Webcam std. .256/.256 226
Stage 1    .264/.264    239
Stage 2 .274/.274       248
**Stage 3 .273/.273     238
** The Stage 3 cam profile is the only profile offered at this time since
I feel it is the best profile for the LS650 engine.**

Effects of duration:
220-235 => Low End Torque
235-250 => Midrange Torque
260 + => Top End Power

Both Stage 1 and Stage 2 camshafts are in the midrange for duration; the Stage 2 is just a bit higher in the category and makes its peak torque & power at 500-1000 rpm higher. The Stage 1 is the better choice for an otherwise stock engine or mild to moderately modified.
The Stage 2 is designed for a moderate to more highly modified engine. Stage 3 was added as a blended profile of 1 & 2, for those who want something in between.
The Stage 3 is a blend of 1 & 2. It has the same basic duration of the Stage 1 and the lift of the Stage 2.

** Camshafts are $299 incl shp with your old cam core in exchange.
$100 refundable core charge if you do not send your old cam core at the time of your order. The core charge will be refunded upon my receipt of the old usable core.

http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp396%3Enu%3D323%3A%3E639%3E697%3EWSN...
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Tip: To quickly find maximum lobe lift, measure the base circle of the cam and subtract it from the thickness across the cam lobe's highest point (see the diagram below). Tip: Maximum valve lift can be calculated by multiplying the maximum lobe lift times the rocker ratio.

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batman

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Re: How do I tell which cam is which?
Reply #5 - 10/13/17 at 09:40:30

I may be all wet here ,but here goes! the high performance cam being made from our cores may be ground more on the broader base (rounded) end of the lobe to achieve it's higher lift .(The distance from the center of the cam shaft to the base subtracted from the distance from the center of the shaft to the pointed end of the cam lobe being the total lift)therefore if you measure the distance of the entire lobe the one that measures the shortest might be the performance cam. If the cams are welded up and completely reground this still may be true,if not than I am full of it and subject to tasting crow .

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Ruttly Serious Thumper Offline Thumpers Rule Posts: 4997 Manteca , CA Gender:	Re: How do I tell which cam is which? Reply #6 - 10/13/17 at 10:18:54 So , How do you like your crow prepared ?
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: How do I tell which cam is which? Reply #7 - 10/13/17 at 11:03:42 As long as the grinding removes material equally around the base, the lifter would track closer to cam center down there, allowing the lump to create the lift.
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batman Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3806 osceola new york Gender:	Re: How do I tell which cam is which? Reply #8 - 10/13/17 at 16:52:12 Ruttly,I like my crow well done,thank you! JOG ,if more was ground off at the center and less at the sides of the base then this could increase duration.(were the heck did I put those files? )
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: How do I tell which cam is which?
Reply #9 - 10/13/17 at 17:12:24

You don't want a valve cracking open until the cam is further around. To get what you want doing it that way would take a complete analysis of the valve train. If you're trying to affect the valves, best to play with the lobes,
The lift would be increased by cutting the circle down that the lobe Grows up out of. By whatever the ratio of lifter movement to valve actuation is.

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batman Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3806 osceola new york Gender:	Re: How do I tell which cam is which? Reply #10 - 10/13/17 at 20:00:49 Jog ,I was lust kidding about the files ,I think the best way to go is to buy a cam if looking for more performance.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: How do I tell which cam is which? Reply #11 - 10/13/17 at 20:29:08 Way too hard for files..
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Re: How do I tell which cam is which?
Reply #12 - 10/13/17 at 22:56:57

Ok , a reground cam like our aftermarket cams,are ground down rewelded all the way around then ground to the new specs. Sometimes you can see the layer on the sides of the lobes.
Cam lobe has a base circle , 2 ramps , 2 flanks and the nose
Base circle the round area where there rocker arms have clearances to the cam,base circle should always remain the same diameter
Ramps are the area that opens & closes the valve,moving the ramps changes when valves open & close,duration
Flanks area between ramps & nose
Nose is what determines amount of lift
Overlap,lobe separation,lobe centers,advance,retard is where it gets very complicated Undecided

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28754 L.A. California Gender:	Re: How do I tell which cam is which? Reply #13 - 10/13/17 at 23:24:32 complicated? I'm sure you can work it out.
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Re: How do I tell which cam is which?
Reply #14 - 10/14/17 at 04:36:49

I just compared a stock cam to a Stage 3 Webcam.

The distance from the bottom of the cam circle to the bearing has the same distance on both cams - so they have not just ground more material off the bottom of the cam profile - they have welded and reground the cam to make the new profile.

You should be able to visually observe the difference in the cam lobe profile. Hold the cam with the gear end away from you, and sight down the length of the cam with the lobe on top. The Webcam has a very round top of the lobe - it opens the valve and sets it back down at what looks like the same rate. The stock cam has a very rounded look on the left side of the lobe (that is the side that lifts the valve off the seat) - the right side of the cam lobe has a much sharper curve - so it begins to drop the valve down at a faster rate. The curve and slope of the lobe is not symmetrical on both sides where maximum lift occurs.

So.....if the lobe appears the same on both sides - it is likely the Webcam.
If the lobe appears a bit different on both sides - it is likely the stock cam.
The height of the lobe above the bearing surface is also larger on the Webcam (more lift).

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