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Brake Master Cylinder No Workie (Read 218 times)
slywuf
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Brake Master Cylinder No Workie
09/30/17 at 12:57:32
 
OK - so I picked up this 96 Savage recently that has been neglected over the past decade and am going thru it end to end to put back in good shape.  The front brake was not working at all - only crud in the master cylinder bowl and no fluid.  I took the slave cylinder all apart, cleaned, new pads.  Cleaned and flushed the brake line.  Took the master cylinder apart (isn't that C clip a pain in the a$$?) cleaned it up real nice.  The seals on the master cylinder piston "looked" good, so put it all back together to test it out.  First, I put the master cylinder in the bench vice and put brake fluid in the reservoir.  Pumped the handle a few times and got nada... no juice out the outlet at all.  Discovered that if I hold my finger tight over the outlet, it would pump fluid out fairly well.  OK - thought maybe once the master cylinder was back on the bike and line and slave were full of fluid it might pump.  Nope - no such luck.  I was able to put brake fluid in a clean oil can and pump it from the bleed valve on the slave all the way up to the master and see the level rising in the reservoir.  Tried operating the master cylinder again and still totally dead.  Is this just the sign of needing a master rebuild kit with new seals, or am I missing something else?
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Ruttly
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder No Workie
Reply #1 - 09/30/17 at 16:11:43
 
Get m/cyl as level as possible fill res. leave top off and try to get bleeder valve on caliper as close to 12 o'clock postion as possible , open valve and let it gravity bleed , keep res full , till fluid is coming out of bleeder. You may need to get fluid moving by stroking lever super slow. It may take some time. I'm pretty sure it's just air in the system. If you wind up needing a caliper I have a very nice one off a 96 only 809 miles on it with new pads.
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slywuf
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder No Workie
Reply #2 - 09/30/17 at 18:08:06
 
I essentially did that same thing by forcing brake fluid from the slave bleed valve all the way up to the master cylinder reservoir.  Also, your idea does not explain why the master cylinder is not outputting any fluid at all when the piston is pumped.  Just like any master cylinder, when the piston is pulled back, it draws in fluid which is then forced out of the cylinder when the piston is shoved forward.  Mine is not doing this, and all I can think is that there is not a good seal produced by those two piston seals....
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder No Workie
Reply #3 - 09/30/17 at 18:31:19
 
Something plugged , seals installed in wrong direction, damaged bore , internally bypassing. Is the hose clear? Disassemble , clean , inspect , blow out ports with compressed air and try it again.
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder No Workie
Reply #4 - 09/30/17 at 23:00:08
 
Been there - done that.  All clean, seals properly installed, hose good - (remember I said I can fill the master reservoir by pumping fluid from slave bleed valve?) I'll report back after I put in a master cylinder rebuild kit, which will be several days.  Thanks for your help.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder No Workie
Reply #5 - 10/01/17 at 09:41:28
 
Before you do that, open the bleeder with the top off the master cylinder and walk away.
If the lever is pushing the brakes, the hole is closed, no fluid passes.
It worked on the bench.
What changed?
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder No Workie
Reply #6 - 10/01/17 at 18:44:27
 
It never worked on the bench unless I held my finder tight over the outlet and then it would pump fluid.  Acts like the seals don't really seal unless there is enough back pressure.  Opening the bleed results in fluid running
out when I have everything connected up  on the bike and the reservoir full.  I know the intake hole in the reservoir is open so the piston can suck fluid in, and the very small hole next to that will spurt fluid when I hold my finger over the outlet, so that small hole is not plugged.
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder No Workie
Reply #7 - 10/01/17 at 20:20:10
 
Takes a few strokes to get the pads out to the disk. If you are sure no air is in the system, close the bleeder and VIGOROUSLY apply the brake. The same condition that you created on the bench should happen.
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder No Workie
Reply #8 - 10/02/17 at 23:32:29
 
I was thinking the same thing, but the master wont build pressure with the brake line and slave hooked up.  Ran lots of fluid thru the line from the bleed valve going up to the master, and it fills the reservoir when I do that, yet it wont pump anything back down... tried doing this many times.
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder No Workie
Reply #9 - 10/03/17 at 05:24:02
 
You need new seals, not just seals that look good.
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder No Workie
Reply #10 - 10/03/17 at 09:12:21
 
 I was able to put brake fluid in a clean oil can and pump it from the bleed valve on the slave all the way up to the master and see the level rising in the reservoir.  

Clever problem solving.

Looks like the plunger in the master cylinder is done.
Whatever cleaning inside the cylinder it travels in you do, don't leave lines running the length of the cylinder. Some 800 grit wrapped on a split shaft and run in a variable speed drill would hone it.
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder No Workie
Reply #11 - 10/03/17 at 21:53:55
 
Yup - I'm hoping the master rebuild kit that came in today will take care of this problem.  I'll put it in tomorrow.  Good advice on checking the cylinder bore to be sure that it is not damaged... I'll eyeball that close tomorrow as well.  Hopefully good news will follow soon....
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder No Workie
Reply #12 - 10/03/17 at 22:17:27
 
Jamming new parts into a place where they are supposed to travel and seal off requires inspection.
Sounds like you've got it nailed.
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder No Workie
Reply #13 - 10/04/17 at 12:20:54
 
Success!  Put in the master cylinder rebuild kit... new seals.  Brake is good now, but did not take right off without some coaxing.  Here is what I did:
After putting new seals on the new plunger and double checking the cylinder bore to be sure it was smooth, I put the master cylinder back on the handle bars but did not hook up the brake hose to it.  I filled the reservoir with brake fluid and then pumped the brake lever a few times.
Fluid did not pump out of the outlet, but I was seeing some bubbles come up in the reservoir, out of the two small holes going into the brake cylinder.  I sealed off the outlet with my finger and continued to pump the brake lever slowly.  This eventually started to build pressure and fluid would squirt from my "finger seal"  Apparently getting some pressure built up expanded the seals on the plunger, which improved the seal and thus the pumping action.  I then connected the brake line and refilled the reservoir.  I opened the bleed screw on the slave cylinder and let a couple of reservoirs worth of fluid run out.  I closed the bleed valve and started working the brake lever slowly.  Got some resistance in the lever after the brake pads seated on the rotor disc, but it was still a bit spongy.  I opened the bleed valve again and let some more fluid run out, closed the valve and added more fluid to the reservoir.  After pumping the lever a bit longer, the usual firmness returned and the brake action was working well.  Apparently the old seals had worn enough to where they could no longer make a tight enough seal to build proper pressure.
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder No Workie
Reply #14 - 10/04/17 at 16:32:38
 
 Apparently the old seals had worn enough to where they could no longer make a tight enough seal to build proper pressure.

Correct as you may be, you're treading Alarmingly close to exposing yourself as an anti-old and decrepit kinda guy. Ageism is not nice. I feel threatened.
When you get old You might be needing a few slow pumps before you can build up pressure, too.
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