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Brakes (Read 348 times)
MMRanch
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Brakes
09/28/17 at 19:44:07
 
So ,

As we all know the front disk on our beloved LS-650  is not the most powerful thing Suzuki ever designed ...

It does SLOW the bike down JUST FINE , if the rider isn't in a hurry to STOP

Well , a friend of mine , has sent me a Dual-Piston Caliper that has been re-manufactured to fit our Little Cruisers.

On with this story ... I received this Re-manufactured Caliper today and ... promptly put it on ...

It fit like it was made for my bike ...  Smiley
I had to go with the supplied banjo bolt .
The air came out of the line on first try

So , out the driveway I went and it did slow me down when I got to the road.    On the 3 miles to town I did several seating , "heating" , and "cooling" cycles.  
 
I took the long hilly way home .   Roll Eyes

By the time I got with-in a mile of the house again the front tire was SQUALLING when I grabbed a full handful of front brake from 40 mph or less and dropping speed REALLY QUICK from above 40 ish.    Cool

Over-all , I'd say  "Suzuki , you already have this caliper in stock ... "

Dave ... it worked GREAT !  Wink    What's the bike its off of  ???  Huh   Are you ready to manufacture more of those adaptor things ???
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Dave
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Re: Brakes
Reply #1 - 09/29/17 at 04:08:33
 
MM:

The post office wasn't supposed to deliver the box until Friday - I am pretty impressed that not only did it arrive a day ahead of schedule....you got it on and working the same evening!  I am glad it works.....a few of us have had that darn thing in our garage for a while - but nobody got brave enough to actually install it and give it a try.

The caliper is from a Suzuki SV650.  The bracket has to be cut, modified and welded to make it work on the Savage - it is pretty labor intensive.  The one I made (you are using) ended up just a little bit farther away from the fork leg than I would have liked - but by the time the cutting, welding and threading was done.......I wasn't going to cut it apart and start over.





I suspect that Suzuki will likely not install such a responsive brake caliper on a "beginner" bike - folks who are not used to "modulating" a front brake and have the potential to just grab a whole handful of front brake when they panic are likely better off with the stock mediocre front brake.


Here is the thread that led to the trial.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1291049239/0
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« Last Edit: 07/29/19 at 04:20:15 by Dave »  

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MMRanch
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Re: Brakes
Reply #2 - 09/29/17 at 08:32:47
 
So Dave ...

Should I order a SV-650 caliper and make-up a mounting bracket ?   Or are you willing to part with this one ?

After knowing how much better it can stop , I'm not wanting to go back !  Wink

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Re: Brakes
Reply #3 - 09/29/17 at 10:08:48
 
MMRanch wrote on 09/29/17 at 08:32:47:
Should I order a SV-650 caliper and make-up a mounting bracket ?   Or are you willing to part with this one ?

After knowing how much better it can stop , I'm not wanting to go back !  Wink



You can have that one - I built it before I bought my big brake from Shawn.  We can figure out a cost when I find out what I paid for the caliper and shipping.

I am glad it works and the work wasn't wasted - but I don't want to start building them on a regular basis.  It is possible that others can use it if they know how to cut/weld/grind.
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Re: Brakes
Reply #4 - 09/29/17 at 14:53:30
 
If someone can send me a back-up sample, I can make up an engineering drawing using AutoCad, and I may even be able to machine them pretty easily (if the pic is as I think it is).  If it is a flat piece of metal, it also could be lasered out of the correct material, and then threaded later.

I do CNC machine work and our shop has laser capabilities.

However, there would have to be a disclaimer for liability issues.  Anytime one messes with brakes, wheels, bearings, etc. or anything that may pertain to safety it is a tricky business.
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Re: Brakes
Reply #5 - 09/29/17 at 15:17:39
 
Where there's a will ... there is a way !

So , the main thing here may be to NOT bid against each other on E-bay !  Grin

http://www.ebay.com/itm/03-09-SUZUKI-SV650-FRONT-BRAKE-Left-Right-CALIPER-/23...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-SV650-SV-650-7534-Front-Left-Brake-Caliper-/37...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/06-Suzuki-SV-650-SV650-Front-Brake-Calipers-/36061901...


I have already ordered a pair of them ... Dave does "Neater Work" but I'll see what I can do with them when they arrive .   Huh

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Re: Brakes
Reply #6 - 09/30/17 at 04:43:55
 
Don't order that first set that MM listed.....those are 4 piston calipers and have the mounting point cast in the caliper - it won't work.  I am not sure it is SV650.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/03-09-SUZUKI-SV650-FRONT-BRAKE-Left-Right-CALIPER-/23...

The problem in modifying the bracket and just making a new plate, is that one of the pins the brakes slides on is permanently attached to the bracket.  It is a hardened pin.....I don't know if you could find a "bolt in" one that same size - if you could, this would allow somebody to make a plate and supply a pin - that would be much easier than the cut and weld that I did.  Most companies no longer sell brake parts anymore, and you have to buy a complete caliper if something breaks or wears out.  I was not sure the caliper was suitable for the Savage - so a "one off" to prove the caliper was not too aggressive is what I built and sent to MM.

I have another set of calipers - unfortunately only the left side one will work in the conversion as they are mirror image calipers....but sometimes you can buy a nice pair of calipers on eBay cheaper than you can buy a left one.

Perhaps buying the proper sized drill rod and welding it into the plate would work? Huh  Although the stock pin also has a machined area that holds the rubber dust boot - so that would have to be duplicated as well.
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Re: Brakes
Reply #7 - 09/30/17 at 08:08:13
 
Dave ,

Ain't nothing like having the material in my hand before I make any promises but :

My local Tractor Supply has Grade 8 bolts in any size up to 1-1/4"  .    I can tap SAE or Metric ...  Wink

My skill saw lives with the metal-cutting blade in it .  Smiley

I am glad this isn't a "rush" job    Grin

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« Last Edit: 09/30/17 at 10:23:28 by MMRanch »  

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Re: Brakes
Reply #8 - 10/02/17 at 05:17:40
 
I looked at the SV650 brake caliper I have, and the problem with just making a new mount - is that there are two pins pressed and/or welded into the stock mount.  Both pins extend out on the front side, and the brake caliper slides on those pins as the pads wear.  One of the pins also extends inward, and the brake pads are held in place with that pin, and also another removable pin.  There really is no way to reproduce these pins in the bracket - unless you are a really, really good machinist with some really good tools.

The stock bracket mounting point have thickened area around each threaded hole - and unfortunately the location of the new holes is offset just a bit, and at least of of the new holes goes partially through one of the old holes.  This requires the old holes to be welded shut, then new holes drilled - and additional metal needs to be welded on to allow the new holes to be fully supported.  To reproduce the thickened area of the old holes - I threaded the holes in the bracket, then inserted a bolt and installed nuts on the backside, and welded them in place (I had to use a bolt in the hole to ensure the threads were in alignment).

Here is what I posted in the other thread.

I first put the bracket in my lathe and machined off the raised portion that provides a thicker thread area.


I then welded up the original holes.


I then ground the welds nearly flush, then cut an extension piece to weld on.  I left the extension large so it could be welded without burning it up....the actual extension needed was much smaller.


Here is the bracket cut to size and tapped 10x1.25.  I then welded nuts on the back side to provide more thread area.


Here is what it looks like mounted.  If I had it to do over again I would weld the extension with more area on one side - so the caliper could be rotated closer to the fork leg.




(NOTE - You can't just move the caliper inward by shortening the mount - the pads have to stay centered on the disc - so if you want to move the caliper closer to the fork leg, it has to be rotated along the curve of the brake disc.  I would have needed to offset the additional metal I welded on to allow the needed rotation).


I need to order some new brake pads, and while they are in the mail I am going to ride with the stock caliper for a bit so I remember what it feels like.  Then when I mount the new one I will see how it works.  If it works well, I will probably paint it silver like the original one.  I believe I spent about 6 hours cutting and grinding on this...I sure hope it works!


So...if you are on a budget and have the tools and ability to cut/weld/thread - you likely can get a better brake with a used SV650 caliper and several hours of work.  The additional braking power may exceed the heat capacity of the stock rotor if you are using the brake a lot with little cool down period (like the downhill section of Moonshiner 28 in north Georgia).

If you really want a good brake and can afford to buy it - get the one that Shawn makes:http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1475013866/0#0
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Re: Brakes
Reply #9 - 10/02/17 at 06:27:35
 
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Re: Brakes
Reply #10 - 10/02/17 at 06:48:35
 
Yeah Shawn's brake is hard to beat.  Best front brake for the money & super easy install. So far my rating is , flawless !
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Re: Brakes
Reply #11 - 10/02/17 at 08:44:57
 
I adapted this SV650 caliper before Shawn made his big brake kit available, and I was looking for a way to get a better brake.  The cutting and welding was within my ability - manufacturing a larger disc and a caliper adapter was not something I could do.

I have Shawn's brake on my bike - it works great!
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Re: Brakes
Reply #12 - 10/02/17 at 09:24:30
 
Dave, your approach is elegant in that it preserves the OEM rotor, and if Shawn's kit didn't exist I'm sure you would have found a way to produce the adapter bracket. But Shawn's approach works and works extremely well (it's 1/2 of '98-'01 R1 brake for crying out loud).

One finger stopping - HARD one finger stopping - is a complete joy and makes the bike infinitely safer to ride. With an R1 brake installed, the rear brake is now just an emergency back-up.

MM, if your endeavor starts to become a cluge, know that Shawn's kit is a simple 15 minute bolt-on.
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Re: Brakes
Reply #13 - 10/02/17 at 10:19:20
 
Dave don't sell yourself short. There were a couple items on the tracker that had to be redone over & over . Sometimes you got to keep at it till you get it. You almost had it , a pioneer ! The first one to try !
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Re: Brakes
Reply #14 - 10/14/17 at 13:10:48
 
My hat is off to whoever found that caliper would work on our bikes! Dave or whoever it was has done a great service! I was already running a 290mm rotor (rather than the stock 265mm) and noticed a improvement with the stock caliper. Yesterday I made a simple adapter and put on the 2 piston caliper and combined they WORK!!! Just trying it easy around the block it seemed better without even breaking-in the used pads that came with it, but when I grabbed a handful of front brake HARD at 25mph it locked up the tire!!! With 2 fingers now you can hear the front tire slip on the pavement. 3 fingers will now give me a panic stop brake effect in front!
Because of the bigger disc, that also is 3/16'' farther away from the fork leg, the 4 caliper bolts I needed don't interfere with each other. The spacer made from 3/16'' steel was pretty easy.
Anyone doing the conversion should be sure to get the banjo bolt with the 2 piston caliper, as it fits the stock brake line but the threads are different.
Anyone running a 80's cast wheel no longer has to get the solid rotor and turn it down.
If someone, (MMranch) wants to go even further, the caliper from a 04' Suzuki Bandit 1200 appears to mount the same way and is ''3 PISTONS!!!''
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