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Cutting out / stumbling at highway speeds? (Read 574 times)
Jeremy
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Cutting out / stumbling at highway speeds?
09/21/17 at 16:02:28
 
So after putting the Savage on a major diet, I have my '96 back together and I'm loving it.  I swapped out all the airbox junk for a Ryca cone style filter and a little Biltwell muffler on the stock header pipe.

Ordered Lancer's kit, and I bumped the pilot jet up to a 55 and the main to a 150.  Also did the white spacer mod.  The petcock has also been replaced with whatever the board recommended alternative part (from a Raptor?) is.

Other than the jetting stuff, petcock, intake, and exhaust, the engine is totally stock.

Bike idles fine and starts up fine with no choke.  Runs fine and seems to accelerate fine at normal speeds (like driving around on 35 or 45mph roads).  Performs well up to around 50mph.

The problem is when I'm hitting highway speeds or really getting on the throttle, the bike stumbles.  Almost like it cuts out for a split second, then picks right back up, which gives it sort of a "surging" feeling.  This happens if I'm holding a constant speed (like in the 60+ mph range) or if I'm accelerating hard.  When holding a constant speed, it does it pretty frequently, like 3 times in 10 seconds, but sometimes it will be fine for a mile or two.

I'm able to run at an indicated 70 or 75mph, so it isn't like the bike is completely neutered or incapable of speed.  

My next idea is to bump up one more size on the main jet, since I have such a free flowing intake / exhaust setup.  Thoughts?



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Dave
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Re: Cutting out / stumbling at highway speeds?
Reply #1 - 09/21/17 at 18:47:39
 
Jetting is a trial & error type event.  You try something and see if the bike runs better...or worse.

You adjust the pilot jet first. When you adjust the mixture screw for the smoothest running, it should be 1.5 - 2 turns out.  More than 2 turns and you should install a larger jet - if you can turn the screw all the way in an the bike is still running smooth, you need a smaller jet.

Then you adjust the main jet.  You go for a ride and once the bike is warmed up, pick a nice long hill and get up to about 40 mph in high gear and apply full throttle.  As the bike accelerates it should pull smooth and strong.  If you begin to roll off the throttle and you feel the bike accelerate a bit harder - you need a smaller main jet.  If you roll off the throttle and the bike slows - you may need a larger jet....or it might be OK.  I keep installing larger jets until I can feel the bike is has gone a bit sluggish and sounds rich.....then I put in a smaller size or two.

The last thing you adjust is the height of the needle.  You adjust for smooth operation at light throttle settings - if the bike surges at slow acceleration or slow speed cruising - raise the needle.
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« Last Edit: 09/22/17 at 03:42:33 by Dave »  

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Re: Cutting out / stumbling at highway speeds?
Reply #2 - 09/21/17 at 19:12:45
 
Dave, that is the most succinct set of instructions, for carb tuning, I've ever read on this site. That post should be made into a sticky!
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Re: Cutting out / stumbling at highway speeds?
Reply #3 - 09/21/17 at 20:22:25
 
Sorry, but I checked out the biltwell mufflers ,and they aren't built well,at least not for our bikes ,they have no baffle and therefore no backpressure ,their like a straight pipe which makes carb tuning very hard,and performance at higher speeds suffers because you basically added the length of the muffler to the header pipe length(32"+ muffler) ,longer header pipes favor low rpm ,shorter favor higher .That 's why the bike runs OK at low speeds but will only achieve 70-75 ( a stone stock bike will do 85) .Cone filters have been known to block off part of the throat when mounted directly to the carb ( the oval opening at the top controls the slide ,if blocked it will cause the slide to open slowly ,leaning out the fuel mix until it catches up,if it catches up.
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Re: Cutting out / stumbling at highway speeds?
Reply #4 - 09/22/17 at 03:28:52
 
Thanks for the advice, Dave!  I'll see if I can head out this weekend and try that.  Unfortunately, in my mess of a garage, I can't seem to find the rest of Lancer's kit  Angry  Have to see if I can dig the rest of the jets out from wherever I put them.

Batman, I was thinking about the back pressure issue when I bought the Biltwell, but I figured I'd give it a go, since the look of the Biltwell was exactly what I wanted.  I may give a shot at welding up some "lollipop" baffles and seeing if that helps.

It sounds like ultimately, that may be my problem.  The bike may have done higher than the 70-75 that I got it to, but (much like the Ninja 250 that I used to own) I hate pushing a bike on the highway when it sounds like it's about to explode.  In my head, I know the bike can take it, but I'm used to sportier bikes that can sit at 80mph for hours and not break a sweat.
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Re: Cutting out / stumbling at highway speeds?
Reply #5 - 09/22/17 at 03:32:39
 
Also, if it makes a difference, the cone filter is mounted on an elbow that bends down behind the engine, not directly to the carb...

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Re: Cutting out / stumbling at highway speeds?
Reply #6 - 09/22/17 at 04:54:55
 
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Re: Cutting out / stumbling at highway speeds?
Reply #7 - 09/22/17 at 06:03:27
 
Keep in mind too, that a muffler should be 3x the volume of the engine, ideally, and with a decent amount of baffling.  That is why many find the HD Dyna muffler to work very well with our engine.  And it is cheap.
Or if you desire, a Supertrapp or Cone Engineering make good ones as well, but you pay more.  Supertrapp is the most expensive.

You will find that with these mufflers the tuning/jetting will be easier and you will like the results too.
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Re: Cutting out / stumbling at highway speeds?
Reply #8 - 09/22/17 at 07:12:35
 
Thanks, Lancer.  My guess is the muffler is a big part of the problem.  I may take a shot at constructing some sort of baffle for it.  

At the very least, I think the neighbors will appreciate that Smiley
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Re: Cutting out / stumbling at highway speeds?
Reply #9 - 09/22/17 at 07:31:17
 
You should turn that intake elbow around, straight portion nearest to the carb.
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Re: Cutting out / stumbling at highway speeds?
Reply #10 - 09/22/17 at 08:07:57
 
I agree with Vercy,also the length of the intake matters,checkout ;                       www.bgsoflex.com/intakeln.html       ( be aware that the intake length is the total length between the intake valve through to the air filter - 1/2 the  inside diameter of the hose your using.)You might try what we do to restore the baffles in a Dyna muffler ,that is to drive a soft plug (the kind used in to plug the water jackets on auto heads) half way down your muffler ,forcing the exhaust to move around the baffle giving you some back pressure,pick the proper size and drive it in from the forward end.If you find it to be to much you can drill a hole in the center of the plug start small and drill larger if needed,go slow as the noise will increase and the backpressure will drop as the hole gets larger.You may see a lot of bluing on the muffler as the exhaust gases are forced around the baffle ,how much will depend on the Biltwell.
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Re: Cutting out / stumbling at highway speeds?
Reply #11 - 09/22/17 at 08:42:31
 
Awesome info!  I'll look into all of that.

Vers, do you mean just swing the intake to 3 o'clock (so it sticks out the side) instead of 6 o'clock (hanging down behind the engine)?
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Re: Cutting out / stumbling at highway speeds?
Reply #12 - 09/22/17 at 08:51:10
 
No , I think he means the longer straight section should be attached to the carb,as this straightens the air flow into the mouth of the carb.(ideal)Right now the air tends to hug the outside of the elbow making the air denser at the top as it enters the carb,but the slide opens from the bottom ,and that is where the air needs to be to readily mix with the fuel.(the carb is at part throttle ,slide less than half open @ 60MPH, most of the time during normal driving ).
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Re: Cutting out / stumbling at highway speeds?
Reply #13 - 09/22/17 at 09:27:16
 
Gotcha.  That makes sense.  Not sure if it's possible, though.  I think the end that fits onto the carb intake is slightly flared (intake and filter must be slightly different diameters), so I don't know that it's flip-able.
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Re: Cutting out / stumbling at highway speeds?
Reply #14 - 09/22/17 at 09:30:41
 


People modify things that they have never studied. It's not hard to read a little. Ever notice how much better it is having a big straw in the malt? Intake changes have a big impact because there is no piston shoving air out, it's creating a low pressure area and if the design doesn't make it easy for air to flow and get gasoline dispersed evenly through it, it's not a great intake design.
There's a link to a header design video that is really good, but I don't know where it is.
My intake design link may not be the best out there.


justin_o_guy2 wrote on 09/22/17 at 04:54:55:

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