SuzukiSavage.com - Opinions on riding a savage after a 'high' hp bike

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Re: Opinions on riding a savage after a 'high' hp
Reply #45 - 09/23/17 at 03:48:45

Ruttly wrote on 09/22/17 at 21:27:53:

That was a long time ago when I only weighed 125/130 lbs !
Power to weight ratio was much better back then Grin

Yea, I have vague memory's of weighing in that range, but it is so faint that I can hardly see it or even remember. That was another life.

My power to weight ratio has shifted WAY OVER to the heavy side. I'm at the 200 lb. range now when I should be 160-165 lb. range. Amazing how a few extra pounds will slow things down.

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Re: Opinions on riding a savage after a 'high' hp
Reply #46 - 09/23/17 at 10:18:43

When me and my buddies would ride off road they were amazed I could be competitive on my xr200 against their xr500. They all weighed at least 50 lbs more than me. The difference is like wearing a backpack with 4-13 lb bowling balls in it. And then watching when they would brake in turns I would just brake late or not brake at all , kinda riding the edge of the bikes capabilities. They just hated being passed by a 200 even if I was just going to get passed again on the straights, I was the student riding with 2 seasoned very skilled riders.

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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18101 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Opinions on riding a savage after a 'high' hp Reply #47 - 09/23/17 at 12:54:59 To prove the first time wasn't a fluke, and that my Trailtech was accurate, here it is on the GPS speedo. This was in 4th gear (double Kawasaki pulleys), and I believe there was a light head wind!
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Re: Opinions on riding a savage after a 'high' hp
Reply #48 - 09/23/17 at 14:25:54

I positively had no doubts Dave. I know what is possible with these engines. With your gearing and a light tail wind you should be able to pull 105 easy. Cool days are best for speed runs in the 50s.
To all the doubters I know a cafe and a tracker that do the ton , even I have yet to document it ! I can think of several other as well.

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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18101 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Opinions on riding a savage after a 'high' hp Reply #49 - 09/23/17 at 14:38:30 Gary_in_NJ is right......this bike gets really wiggly as you get to 100 mph! I really don't know how much faster the bike can go and be stable. Some of it might have been the slight headwind - as soon as I got off the throttle and got some weight on the front wheel, the bike stopped being wiggly.
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Gary_in_NJ Serious Thumper Offline LS650 Cafe Racer Posts: 2633 Amongst the Twisty Roads	Re: Opinions on riding a savage after a 'high' hp Reply #50 - 09/23/17 at 15:02:06 Lancer While I understand that the DR650 head won't bolt onto a LS650 cylinder, would a DR650 cylinder bolt on to an LS650 engine case. If so, then that's a way to use a DR650 head on an LS650.
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Re: Opinions on riding a savage after a 'high' hp
Reply #51 - 09/23/17 at 18:19:27

Dave wrote on 09/23/17 at 14:38:30:

Gary_in_NJ is right......this bike gets really wiggly as you get to 100 mph! Shocked

I really don't know how much faster the bike can go and be stable. Some of it might have been the slight headwind - as soon as I got off the throttle and got some weight on the front wheel, the bike stopped being wiggly.

I did not notice any shaking or wiggles with mine but at WFO it is hard to turn , you really have to pull it thru a turn even with a lighter flywheel. It may be due wider bars and my hella stiff rear shocks. Tire pressure too , front pressure too low will cause a wobble. And I only had my hand on the throttle ,left hand on the forks all tucked flat track style, nothing but motor.

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Re: Opinions on riding a savage after a 'high' hp
Reply #52 - 09/24/17 at 13:58:37

Gary_in_NJ wrote on 09/23/17 at 15:02:06:

Lancer

While I understand that the DR650 head won't bolt onto a LS650 cylinder, would a DR650 cylinder bolt on to an LS650 engine case. If so, then that's a way to use a DR650 head on an LS650.

No, unfortunately not, the cam chain channnel is not the same and the cam guides will not fit.
Frustrating isn't it ?

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Re: Opinions on riding a savage after a 'high' hp
Reply #53 - 09/24/17 at 14:46:08

And to throw some salt in the wound. I was looking at the Tempter ST400 specs last night and it's got 24 H/P at a top advertised speed of 99 mph , however its torque is very low for a thumper.
I will keep experimenting for the last few H/P.
I'm still very happy with it, as the engine was just another exercise in engine building , each one gets better than the last , makes me happy !
With the help of the SS crew made it easy. A Savage Family. Grin

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Re: Opinions on riding a savage after a 'high' hp
Reply #54 - 09/25/17 at 03:07:44

Ruttly wrote on 09/24/17 at 14:46:08:

And to throw some salt in the wound. I was looking at the Tempter ST400 specs last night and it's got 24 H/P at a top advertised speed of 99 mph , however its torque is very low for a thumper.
I will keep experimenting for the last few H/P.

I believe the exhaust port is a huge handicap on the Savage, and it limits the amount of power (flow), that the engine can make. With the 400cc cylinder or 650cc cylinder......there is only so much HP to be had. (I wonder if the cam grind is the same for both bikes?).

I am pretty well satisfied with the amount of power that the engine can make (with the piston/cam/carb swap). I don't think the chassis can handle a bunch more HP, and my riding style really doesn't need a lot of HP, as I mostly stay within the speed limits on the straight sections and try to corner in a "festive" manner!

If I wanted to bump up the HP on my current setup - I believe I need to make a 1-1/2" exhaust header, a less restrictive muffler, and a cam change from the Stage 1 to the Stage 3.

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Re: Opinions on riding a savage after a 'high' hp
Reply #55 - 09/25/17 at 09:53:24

Dave wrote on 09/25/17 at 03:07:44:

Ruttly wrote on 09/24/17 at 14:46:08:

And to throw some salt in the wound. I was looking at the Tempter ST400 specs last night and it's got 24 H/P at a top advertised speed of 99 mph , however its torque is very low for a thumper.
I will keep experimenting for the last few H/P.

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I believe the exhaust port is a huge handicap on the Savage, and it limits the amount of power (flow), that the engine can make. With the 400cc cylinder or 650cc cylinder......there is only so much HP to be had...

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Shame since a 450cc MX bike puts out 50+ hp and 250cc bikes are getting ~40hp stock.

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Gary_in_NJ

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Re: Opinions on riding a savage after a 'high' hp
Reply #56 - 09/25/17 at 11:16:12

ohiomoto wrote on 09/25/17 at 09:53:24:
Shame since a 450cc MX bike puts out 50+ hp and 250cc bikes are getting ~40hp stock.

Apples to oranges. A modern MX bike is water cooled, uses a high compression skirtless piston, has a lightweight valve train, revs to 10,000 rpm, is fuel injected, and only has to last a season or two before needing a complete rebuild (two to 4 seasons if trail ridden).

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Re: Opinions on riding a savage after a 'high' hp
Reply #57 - 09/25/17 at 11:45:03

I know. Just saying it's a shame how neutered our bikes are. A GR650 twin gets 50hp yet we get 30hp. I'm pretty sure this motor has a reliable 40hp in it.

That said, I don't really care because I knew what I was buying. If I wanted performance I would have looked elsewhere. I love the torque and there is just enough power to make the bike fun to ride. Just enough.

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Re: Opinions on riding a savage after a 'high' hp
Reply #58 - 09/26/17 at 01:13:56

ohiomoto wrote on 09/25/17 at 11:45:03:

I know. Just saying it's a shame how neutered our bikes are. A GR650 twin gets 50hp yet we get 30hp. I'm pretty sure this motor has a reliable 40hp in it.

That said, I don't really care because I knew what I was buying. If I wanted performance I would have looked elsewhere. I love the torque and there is just enough power to make the bike fun to ride. Just enough.

@ohiomoto, I feel pretty much the same way. I knew what I was buying. The highest legal speed here in Australia is 110km/hr (you can blow your licence at 30 over)

I'm happy to have just richened it up a bit to get the best out of what it is.

I was exchanging some friendly trash talk the other day with a friend who rides an 883 Sportster - 'riceburner' v 'tractor' type of thing. He said something to the effect of 'leaving me in the dust'. I said 'yeah, once we hit 130'.

We've ridden together before, and it was great fun - "fun at legal speeds". If I really wanted the MotoGP experience I'd have bought a sports bike and booked tack days.

Having said that, if I had the knowhow, I'd love to see what difference the high compression piston makes! Cool

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Ruttly Serious Thumper Offline Thumpers Rule Posts: 5112 Manteca , CA Gender:	Re: Opinions on riding a savage after a 'high' hp Reply #59 - 09/26/17 at 03:14:56 A H/C piston gives it some kick but I think best bang for your buck is a vm36 carb and a Dyna muffler. Cause if your doing the piston you might as well do the cam too !
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