Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print
LENR (ongoing) (Read 911 times)
Oldfeller
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

All retired now,
taking it easy !!

Posts: 11036
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: LENR (ongoing)
Reply #45 - 03/03/18 at 23:14:15
 

http://e-catworld.com/2018/03/01/rossi-higher-power-e-cat-reactor-being-teste...

Rossi: Higher Power E-Cat Reactor being Tested — QX Still to be First Product (Update #2: Prototype group set is 100 kW)

A prototype of the new large reactor has apparently been built, and Rossi has said that it must go through the same type of Sigma 5 testing that the E-Cat QX went through — which lasted about a year. So if Rossi does get a product under production this year, it will be E-Cat QX-based.

Rossi has always said that E-Cat R&D will never end. I would guess that it will be on the R&D side of things where Rossi will expend most of his efforts, as he most likely will be letting robotics experts and engineers deal with the production of the finished products, which Rossi has less experience with.


So, individual reactor cells are 80 watts, the first "full sized" matched up of controller and honeycombed reactor cell industrial units are coming in at a very marketable 100 kw.

100 kw is a lot of heat in a relatively small package.   100 kw can heat a moderate sized commercial building, run most baking and dryer lines in commercial space, run a low volume desalinization plant or power a steam car.

This is the 5 sigma test unit.



===================================================



Early results have ABB moving forward on 80 watt single cell based units (4x more output than originally planned) as the smallest unit and a new larger 100 watt single cell based unit as the current heavy duty cell unit.    Difference is mainly the size, the amount of powder contained inside each type of cell and the resulting increased duration of that charge.

Obviously, the higher capacity yet more durable cell is preferred for industrial applications.   Likely the second (larger, more durable cell) will be the one that goes forward into large scale production.

Since ABB got directly involved with the E-Cat industrial and electrical design, Rossi's E-Cats have at least quadrupled in heat output and have at least tripled in duration.   It is expected, quietly, that the larger unit may be able to at least do double the heat output compared to the existing design but may drop some in durability while being run at the higher output rates.  

Also, for the first time advances in the electronic controller has been fingered as the cause of the output shifts, with the reactor design being basically the same between the generations.

Go ABB, go .....

Wink


===================================================



ABB has implemented a "anti-tamper" system into the controller electronics that will result in electrical scrambling of the controller and a failure in the individual cells should someone go tampering with the system.

This means all Rossi's talk of requiring his technicians to come on your site to do all routine maintenance has gone by the board now -- you can buy plug in components and do yearly the replacement with your own people.

You will need to take great care not to "tamper" with anything though as your system will shut itself down if tampered with and the replacement cost and downtime costs of any "self destroyed" replacement components in that case is all yours to bear.

Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 05/12/18 at 15:48:43 by Oldfeller »  

Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
  IP Logged
Oldfeller
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

All retired now,
taking it easy !!

Posts: 11036
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: LENR (ongoing)
Reply #46 - 05/10/18 at 18:42:27
 

OK,

Rossi and company are now putting assembly lines into their proposed plant building, with the lines being built from stock ABB robotic components and being assembled in Florida.   The plant is going together quickly, and is about half finished.

Rossi is building 100 watt singles to start, 13 of them (3 held in reserve for a durability factor) go into a single en-block 1 kilowatt enclosure complete with an electronics control package.   I kilowatt rack units are what is being produced, with higher capacity plants 1 megawatt plants to be put together using multiple 1 kilowatt enclosures sharing common plumbing.

Units will be sold late this year or early of next year.

This is manufacturing Stage 1, with the units already pre-approved with all testing being completed.   Within 2 years the second generation will have completed all approvals and testing (year long testing has started but is being held in complete secrecy by ABB).  

Ross has leaked the size of the new individual cells, 100 watts and 1000 watts so these are the medium and large cells discussed earlier this year.   There is a question about the 100 watt cell really being a slightly enlarged re-spec'd 80 watt cell.  ABB has designed the enclosures for Gen 1, 2 and 3 to fit the same mounts and size envelopes, and since the electronics are part of the enclosure itself upgrading between generations should be very easy.   Plug it in, bolt it down and hook up the plumbing fittings.

Expect a new generation every year to two years as more is known about how the stuff actually works.  

If you want to buy something, go buy some ABB stock.   Rossi still isn't selling anything.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 05/16/18 at 06:46:14 by Oldfeller »  

Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
  IP Logged
jcstokes
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com is
very useful

Posts: 1674
Mauku New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: LENR (ongoing)
Reply #47 - 05/12/18 at 12:22:26
 
This ABB, is that the Sewdish Asea Brown Boveri,? or however it's spelt.
Back to top
 
 

Completely stock 2010 S40, aftermarket rev counter and back pack, Airhawk seat pad
  IP Logged
Oldfeller
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

All retired now,
taking it easy !!

Posts: 11036
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: LENR (ongoing)
Reply #48 - 05/12/18 at 15:35:28
 

https://www.youtube.com/user/ABBRobotics         yup, its a YouTube to show you the advanced small teachable two armed robot Rossi is using for direct process manipulation learning during development --- and a lot of single station pick and place robot arms for simpler tasks once a line flow is established.   All of these machines can be "trained", not programmed when modifications to processes are needed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABB_Group gives you the direct answer to your question.  Yes, you are correct.

Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 05/13/18 at 22:22:50 by Oldfeller »  

Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
  IP Logged
Oldfeller
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

All retired now,
taking it easy !!

Posts: 11036
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: LENR (ongoing)
Reply #49 - 05/13/18 at 12:15:49
 
 
Ross has leaked the size of the new individual single cells, 100 watts and 1000 watts so these are the medium and large cells discussed earlier this year.   There is a question about the 100 watt cell really being a slightly enlarged re-spec'd 80 watt cell.

Grilling Rossi has confirmed a slight up shift in the specs of the 80 watt cell is what makes the 100 watt cell.   It contains more actual powder (a tighter fill) and because of changes in excitement programming it runs much longer SSD (self-sustain periods) which reach higher temperatures before peaking and declining into the next excite cycle.   (cycle used to be 6 seconds between excites --- is now "much longer")

Net effect is a higher rated cell output (100 watts) and a longer duration life span for the actual powder charge.  COP is higher, as less excite time is being used.

Only 10 of these single cells are required to make up a 1 kilowatt reactor rack set, but Rossi may well stick with the current rack set design for 13 single cells inside the box simply to have extra drop in cells available to forestall any service life curtailments and to give a yet longer overall service life to the initial 1 kilowatt reactor rack set.

Like the 20 watt and the 40 watt variants before them, the 80 watt cell design will now never be produced, now only the new and improved 100 watt version that is also undergoing new 5 sigma testing will actually be sold as the smallest unit.   This is the current plan.

What Rossi is showing us now is the early progress curve of a brand new tech, like electricity the constant improvements made early on that make it "better and better all the time".

5 sigma testing --- what is being stress tested is actually the new controller electronics and the new programming, the cells themselves are relatively unchanged apart from very minor tweeks and the general cell and rack set design has passed multiple 5 sigma runs at the different output levels already.

Rossi is always being technically CONSERVATIVE -- what he states and sells will always be less than he can really do --- he is increasing his margin for error for items lying outside his proper control.

Rossi is not leaking very much info about his larger 1000 watt single cell that is also undergoing 5 sigma testing, it is obviously a larger animal aimed at much larger commercial installations, perhaps intended for a single module plug in replacement system that is to be done by a commercial maintenance person -- each module would contain say 2-5 cells that would all get scrambled in case of any tampering.

Wink
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 05/15/18 at 20:20:02 by Oldfeller »  

Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
  IP Logged
Oldfeller
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

All retired now,
taking it easy !!

Posts: 11036
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: LENR (ongoing)
Reply #50 - 05/15/18 at 14:03:19
 

http://e-catworld.com/2018/05/14/rossi-ready-to-start-accepting-orders-for-1m...


Oh Serowbot, you old Doubting Thomas, you .......


Rossi Ready to Start Accepting Orders For 1MW Plants

Posted on May 14, 2018 • 20 Comments

For people wanting to get to the head of the queue for ordering E-Cat Plants when they are ready, Andrea Rossi signaled today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics that he is ready to start entering in to customer agreements to do so.

Tom
May 14, 2018 at 8:54 AM
Dr Andrea Rossi:
Are you ready to accept orders for the industrial plants? If yes, how is possible to start a deal?
Thank you if you can answer,
Tom

Andrea Rossi
May 14, 2018 at 1:30 PM
Tom:
Yes, we are open now to begin to examine requests for 1 thermal MW plants, but only from industries that use directly the heat for their production process in their factories. For this utilization we have the necessary certifications and our industrialization is scheduled to start at the end of the year. Therefore the answer is YES, but the Customers must be aware of the fact that the delivery terms could be modified. The contracts will take in consideration this fact.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

A few things of note here: The output is 1 thermal MW, so it seems like that will be the minimum size. Rossi says that they will ‘examine requests’, so he might be selective about who gets the plants. It looks like to be considered you have to be a legitimate industrial customer who will use the heat in the production process — this is what the plants are certified for. The industrialization is ‘scheduled’ to start at the end of 2018, but that is not guaranteed at this point. There’s no mention of price, guaranteed COP or temperature range. There’s nothing yet on the ecat.com website yet, which is still showing data about the first generation plant, which is the low temperature model which was operated during the 1 year Doral test, but which hasn’t been on the market.


You can bet that Rossi will vet these first customers most carefully, both for secure locations and for "Honoring the Non-Disclosure Agreement" and PR history type reasons.

However, Rossi may also entertain sending a "don't go inside it" unit off to some significant and impressive (impartial) 3rd party test house to run it long term just for gaining some publicity about outside verification.

Rest assured that Rossi will only be selling the heat on these first few units, that he will retain ALL RIGHTS to hardware and software, period, with significant wording to the effect that that if the unit is "tampered with" all the resulting damages to HIS hardware/software will be paid out by the customer.

But, if Rossi really can provide heat energy at 1/10th of the net cost of natural gas, he will likely find some ready takers even to these restrictive terms.


====================================================


Rossi's announcement that he is vetting his first customers has shaken 3 other innovators out of their secrecy shield, with a chorus of "We are going to start taking pre-orders, too".

Now everything depends on the first gen product being totally ready.   Tesla and Westinghouse totally reconfigured the Original Generators at Niagara Falls three times in 10 years, lining up the generations as Station 1, 2, 3 just as fast as they could build them and in this new Rossi tech we see the same effects happening as the base tech is improving at least that rapidly as they figure out more and more of what they are doing.

Rossi and his backers feel that the small 100 watt reactor is going to be the guts of many many many appliance sized items and as such it needs to move on down the bulk industrialization approvals pathways (the only pathway to reality it has).   It needs years worth of totally safe run time in real applications before it can get into any single use home type applications inside your house.

The larger SK reactor (1,000 watts each) will take over much of the commercial market as soon as it becomes proven out, produced and sold.   This one will heat/cool your home and generate your power -- houses out away from power grids will become something for the masses at that point in time.

Solar is real, but requires too much collector room to be a individual's total access electrical power supply.    Tesla's power wall and his parked car used as a storage unit for generated electricity will also play in Rossi's roll out as it allows Rossi to sell in smaller "right sized" units instead of full capacity units (overkill).

You gotta heat your water and you gotta heat/cool your house.   Rossi fits there the best if he lives up to his early claims for low low low yearly cost.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 05/16/18 at 06:40:37 by Oldfeller »  

Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
  IP Logged
Oldfeller
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

All retired now,
taking it easy !!

Posts: 11036
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: LENR (ongoing)
Reply #51 - 05/17/18 at 10:42:37
 

Rossi has broached several commercialization methods to help American Industry to move away from polluting, expensive Fossil Fuels -- this track is the lowest cost, lowest risk track suitable for a dubious customer as it required no up front money from him but it requires a 5 year commitment from the customer to utilize and pay for a Megawatt of Steam Heat continuously and uninterrupted for 5 years.   The cost is much lower than what the customer is currently paying, and it allows the customer to verify E-Cat's function and suitability at his own facility on his own production process needs while saving money for the customer.

This approach absolutely removes the "fear of obsolescence" which in this rapidly developing technology MUST be of real concern to any reasonable early adopter.   Since Rossi is accepting all the failure risks and obsolescence risks for the smaller 100 watt reactors, he must be very sure that he has a rock solid system that is really suitable for a 5 year run.   Upgrading at the end of a lease to the new "latest and greatest" would be a natural part of this sort of system.

And face it, 5 years worth of "settling in" will surely allow LENR reach some sort of a plateau in development and theoretical knowledge.   Or not, as the case may be.


Leonardo to Begin Commercialization by Selling Heat, not E-Cat Plants: Q & A With Andrea Rossi

Posted on May 17, 2018 • 5 Comments

Below is a Q & A exchange conducted today via email with Andrea Rossi seeking clarifications on his plans for the commercial roll-out of industrial E-Cats.

1. Can you explain why you have decided now to announce that you are taking orders for the industrial E-Cat plants?

Because if we make plants we need clients.

2. You have been developing industrial E-Cat products for many years now. However, first generation E-Cat plants, like the one you operated during the 1-year test in Doral, never went into mass production. What is different with the current generation of E-Cat?

The former Ecats were not ready to be operated from clients.

3. For someone hearing about the E-Cat for the first time, and interested as a possible customer, what information would you like to tell them about your product?

The Customer has just to know how much energy we deliver, in which form and at what price, plus the information that will be contained in the safety instructions. We will make the installation.

4. What size (in power rating) plants are you taking orders for?

1 MW

5. How much physical space would a 1 MW E-Cat plant occupy?

15′ x 9′ x 9′

6. If someone orders a plant today when can they expect to be able to receive it?

End 2018/2019 first quarter

7. Comparing an E-Cat plant to a typical natural gas heating system of the same power rating, about how much cheaper would it be to operate over one year?

Enough

8. You have mentioned recently for example that industrial plants could be installed in facilities like factories, hospitals and greenhouses which need heat. What would be your definition of an industrial application for an E-Cat?

An application wherein the heat is used by an industry for any purpose

9. What would be the approximate cost of a 1MW plant if it were ordered today?

We will sell heat, not plants

10. Is your business model now to only sell heat, or will you sell plants to customers in the future?

It will depend on the evolution of the situation

11. At the factories where you sell heat, will Leonardo personnel operate the plants, or will employees of the local company operate them?

The plant will be operated in remote from our headquarter, through the cloud with dedicated servers. The Client will not have any operations to do inside the plant.

12. When a customer makes an agreement with Leonardo, are they agreeing to pay just a monthly energy bill, or are there other up-front costs involves (such as installation fees)?

This will depend on the agreement

13. What is the minimum length of time for a contract duration?

5 years

14. What is the guaranteed minimum COP of an E-Cat plant?

Enough

15. What is the maximum temperature or steam that an E-Cat plant can produce?

600 C

16. Who will install E-Cat plants for customers?

Leonardo Corporation

17. How will training on how to operate an E-Cat plant be done?

The expert responsible for safety of the Client will make a course on site

18. Like with any product, a typical customer will more than likely want to see a demonstration of an E-Cat plant before making a decision to purchase. When will you show your new product, and demonstrate it in operation?

When one will be in operation



As soon as Industry accepts the E-Cat as both real and trustworthy, other deals may be offered.   This one has one key good point for Rossi, for the first 5 year period it helps Rossi keep his thumb firmly on his invention.

This will be necessary as the furor over this new tech will be extreme, and by buffering it in for 5 years in a somewhat limited fashion Rossi is allowing the Fossil Fuel Industry time to react and giving Industry in general time convert over to Rossi tech .....



===================================================     some clarifications



Andrea Rossi
May 17, 2018 at 1:23 PM

JPR:

As a matter of fact all the industrial secrets related to the control system will not be in the plant, but in our control headquarter; what will be found in the plant is already described in the patent, that for obvious reasons has been published in all the 57 Countries that have granted it. It will be like to steal the secrets of AT&T looking at the telephone set on the table of the sitting room. This will make us waste no time with fake-clients-real-spies, because at this point we will be contacted only by Customers that really want only to save money, when buying energy, not giving a darn about how it can happen. It should also speed up our penetration, because the Client has no risks, makes no investments, if he gets energy with a profit he pays, otherwise he does not pay and we get back the plant. In case of malfunction the Client can use his traditional system as a back up and all the risks are upon us.

Warm Regards,

A.R.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 05/18/18 at 20:41:56 by Oldfeller »  

Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
  IP Logged
Oldfeller
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
*****
Offline

All retired now,
taking it easy !!

Posts: 11036
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male
Re: LENR (ongoing)
Reply #52 - Yesterday at 15:07:51
 

https://youtu.be/BHxHtjP3ddQ         a thick and chewy summarization of over a dozen LENR experimenters

Bob Greenyer is summarizing Parkhomov, the Lyon guys and the Ecco guys and a dozen others by putting predictive spreadsheet reaction tables together that predict what would likely assemble into what, assembling naturally during a natural series of up to dozens and hundreds of understood LENR energy producing reactions.  

Over 1,000 stages have been identified, stepping atoms up by tiny stages while only throwing non-ionizing output radiations and making no particles that can ever leave an electrical/magnetic containment field.

(yes, LENR takes place in nature --- this is becoming recognized more and more and more)

And yes, that is indeed what the boys are seeing in the higher energy reactors, things are combining in simple pairs and then re-pairing again and again into other combinations, busting open and settling back in various steps finally settling into a more stable set of heavier output elements.

Knowing what eventually becomes what suggests which pairings that can go into producing that end state with a maximized output of good usable heat energy while avoiding any nasty radiations.

It also shows ways to create layered reactor side barrier set ups that stop the bad stuff from getting out of the reactor by allowing them an instant pathway to a stable end state that "uses up the bad stuff" that is trying to get out.

Greenyer also finds he has explanation now for the "disappearing tungsten milling ball mass" that was seen in ultrasonic milling operation that was being routinely done by Sudhas to super-clean his materials.

For fast action LENR, you need a plasma state.  You can get it by discharge, by cavitation, by small area impact (ball milling), you can do it in an electro plating arrangement --- we seem to keep finding new ways to do it.

Rossi uses a tiny electrical lamp type plasma, which he cuts on and off quite frequently to regulate any over run into higher than desired energy state reactions.   Rossi uses nickel and lithium as his feed stocks and he makes a range of "safe output" end materials over a long chain of reactions, releasing controllable heat in doing so.  

Stanislav Adamenko used heavier arc rigs that had actually created some unknown stable but heavier than naturally occurring elements in his arc reactors, elements that could then act as a stored nuclear battery -- elements that could then be triggered and disassembled at will later on to release a lot of stored LENR energy.

Using molten bismuth and other feeder elements, a chain of up to 72 predicted reactions could created in a molten bismuth power source --- one that was actually built by Sudhas, one which is still producing minor energy nearly a year after it was cut off and solidified.   Bob Greenyer has Sudha's old reactor and he is still studying it before he "safely attempts any re-creation of the experiment".

"Strange" NON-ionizing radiation (not standard nuclear radiation at all) is now a real term, and several experimenters have accidentally mildly damaged their eyes while working on this stuff ......  generally by directly looking into the pretty light from the reactors.

The term "Alchemist" has reentered science again -- specifically in the LENR side of science.

And yes, some parings are actually self refining -- iridium has such a high melting point it floats to the top of the molten Bismuth bath that it was created in to be skimmed off as a refined result.  Just flux your Bismuth bath with a self-volatilizing flux, let the flux evaporate and then skim the cleaned metal to get your tiny iridium crystals that are only worth a measly $43,000 an ounce.



Makes controllable LENR heat energy, with a planned reaction that intentionally also has a very valuable side product.  

That is the definition of the New Alchemist in action.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 17:07:09 by Oldfeller »  

Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
05/28/18 at 00:51:54



General CategoryThe Cafe › LENR (ongoing)


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.