Well, right now you could sign up for a commercial Rossi installation of say, a plant hot water heating source and you could independently verify that it works without understanding anything.

There are gonna be dozens here in the USA before long, I suspect.   Just remember, violate your Non-Disclosure Agreement and the web connection will cause your equipment to stop working.

    Apparently Rossi spent too much time using Microsoft Software products .......

https://e-catworld.com/2019/04/15/leoardo-has-had-to-resole-several-problems-...
 
The peanut gallery discussion of how long to wait for the bugs to shake out at this level of the E-Cat roll out was interesting.   The peanut gallery is beginning to understand where Rossi is right now, he is past Industrial development and into the UL CERTIFICATION data collection process for Commercial devices, which have different performance criteria from Residential devices as opposed to Appliance devices.   Rossi is collecting the data to move on all of these fronts in order, but they come in a logical order due to the needs of background data collection.

cashmemorz • 7 hours ago
Even with the problems that were found and fixed, the first version in market still should be vetted for at least one full year, for the longer term effects on the E-Cat being in use at each of the several customers. One year is the base line for the minimum amount of time that the E-Cat can be warranted to work dependably. The E-Cat, being engineered to produce power for a fixed period of time to be swapped out for a completely new unit, requires no more than one year, if that its "maximum lifetime" use. Most appliances get a time period of five years basic warranty as a basic given. Also appliances are "allowed to break down after 5 years, from "normal" usage. No one can, or even wants to make any appliance so tough, it never breaks down. That kind of mindset has gone with the Dodo and with the advent of "Planned obsolescence, or built-in obsolescence".

After that first, maximum time period of one year, that the E-Cat is expected to work at optimum level, allows for the next step towards mass production, consisting of a few hundred to a few thousand units. This kind of iterative progress safe guards the confidence the E-Cat conveys for the later, potentially large scale, millions of units, market. Better to be slow, sure and safe, then to hurry and possiblly get stuck with millions of faulty units and bad PR. Even after that second, one year period, the thousands of units deployed, could still show too many faults and errors that will require another trial year of continuous use, then iterative ramping up production for just another few more thousands of units for another year trial, until the number and kinds of faults, becomes so few as to be tolerated. So maybe, as Rossi indicated earlier, it will be several years, as in less than ten, before the E-Cat gets certified for domestic use.

Safety Aspects of LENR need to be developed along with its shielding --- Microwave Ovens had to go through this stage back in the 60's too, remember the Amana Radar Range was an expensive commercial oven on planes, etc. long before it hit the American domestic kitchen counter top.

I won't see us going to the stars, on ships powered by LENR devices, but maybe, just maybe, I will get my single room heating unit while I can still think straight and appreciate what the E-Cat means.

I really wouldn't call this 'positive' coverage.
These guys are 30 years behind the times.
And google says it still can't figure it out.

Rossi is in California for 2 weeks, overseeing a partner staged test of a SK variant with greatly enhanced electrical generation.

Partner is thought to be ABB, divisions are thought to be lighting and electrical generation, end use is thought to be automotive.   This is all a bunch of wishful peanut gallery thinking based on all sorts of thin assed theories, but Rossi admits to going to California for 2 weeks to decide if this electrical generation direct from the plasma is a real pathway to be followed or not.

WHAT IS GOOD    Rossi isn't doing all the heavy thinking and prototype construction any more, his partner is being trusted to make progress on his own.    If Tesla had never trusted Westinghouse to move forward working alone, well electricity wouldn't have gone very far, now would it?

Next, different development sites are apparently working on the various Rossi stuffs --- this is good as "world class experts" have to live somewhere, most often they live far away from where you are at the moment.

Far easier to put Rossi up in a hotel room for 2 weeks, in other words ......


The more I learn, the more the SK comes across as a kind of mercury vapor type lamp type thingie that happens to make a lot more energy than the originals did.  

And yes, they do admit that halogen and mercury vapor lamps did indeed shine with greater than unity light output (and lots of extra heat) compared to the small steady state running electricity that is used for steady state running energy, it was all a big mystery back then but I think they understand it a good bit better now.


===================================================


Rossi has finished his week long test, lined out the details on the next generation device modifications and says the new version will be built and under test again inside 14 days.

http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/244_JCMNS-Vol24.pdf

Observation of Anomalous Production of Si and Fe in an Arc Furnace Driven Ferro Silicon Smelting Plant at levels of Tons per day
C.R. Narayanaswamy∗
The Silcal Metallurgic Ltd., Coimbatore 641004, Tamil Nadu, India

Abstract

In the period 1978–2002, The Silcal Metallurgic Ltd., a Coimbatore (India) based company, was engaged in the production of ferro silicon alloy deploying a 12 MVA “Submerged Carbon Arc” powered smelter. During a 11-week long non-stop round the clock operation of the plant in 1995, daily feed of raw materials was: Quartz (33.4 ton), charcoal (with fixed carbon content of 13.2 ton) and scrap steel (5.1 ton) while the daily output production of Fe–Si alloy (73.5% Si) was 24.75 ton.

From the total weights of Si and Fe in the input feed and assuming 100% recovery of the metals, the daily output alloy production could at best have been only 20.5 ton. However to our surprise throughout the 11-week period the total daily Fe–Si alloy (with 73.5% Si) output was consistently 24.75 ton, corresponding to a daily “anomalous” excess metal production of 4.25 ton of Fe–Si alloy.

The only source of Si entering the smelter furnace was the quartz raw material and that of Fe was the scrap steel (except for minor additional amounts of Fe originating from the steel casing of the consumable Söderberg carbon electrodes). Very careful vigil of the weights of daily input feed of raw materials and output alloy drained out as also the electrical energy consumption was maintained. It was evident that roughly 20% more metal than could be accounted for from the input feed was being produced and consequently we have been obliged to come to the conclusion that anomalous quantities of Si (2.8 ton/day) and Fe (1.45 ton/day) were being synthesized during the smelting process.

Discussions with researchers involved in the Cold Fusion/LENR field have suggested that a likely explanation for the anomalous metal production could be the occurrence of transmutation reactions between nuclei of C and the O stripped from the SiO2 during the chemical reduction process. It is speculated that the intense varying magnetic fields generated by the kilo-amp levels of alternating current (AC) driving the arcing between the three gigantic carbon electrodes and the carbonic hearth of the furnace, in the 2000◦C temperature environment, could have somehow catalyzed transmutation reactions to occur, very similar to the transmutations reported in laboratory scale “Carbon-Arc experiments” first revealed by George Oshawa in 1964.


Well now, remember all them arc lamps and florescent tubes and mercury vapor and sodium vapor lamps that all proved out to be doing LENR all along and nobody had ever said much about it?

Well, a HUGE industrial sized electric open arc smelting furnace has always been noted for getting very very hot and for having "high efficiency" just like them electric vapor lamps did.

But now the careful reporting of carefully recorded elemental transformations by the TONS for years on end, using more than accurate enough measuring equipment ---- boys, LENR is here and it is real and has been real for like over 100 years, they just never noticed the math didn't really add up before.   It was too big, so it just got overlooked.   Or it got ignored, as in being too controversial to talk about.

Must have been all them little errors in measuring the raw ingredients adding up over time .......     right      

Hey guys, we really need to get us some much better weight scales for controlling and data recording those input raw materials.  

So they finally got some much more accurate state of the art loading scales that came with with a brand new state of the art super-efficient arc furnace set up that they bought to save money on energy.    Much Much better scales, controls and recording capability on loading and on power usage and all the other inputs and outputs.

And once it was up and running good, they did notice their new super accurate scale systems gave them about same answers as the old scale systems did, well then the people running the plant wisely kept their mouths shut about it because of the bonus transformation $$$ benefits and because of the nasty onus that LENR and "transformation" in general held in the eyes of the scientific community well, the image muck would just gotten smeared all over their company's image if they had talked about it.

      Got him some balls, C.R. Narayanaswamy does .......  reporting this controversial item 20 years later when he is far far far away from the company in question.

 
OK, I generally don't bring up new Rossi stuff to you guys on the first wiff, I generally wait until Frank the list owner invariably asks his "clarification questions" that carefully bring out the rest of the information and Frank gets the wordings and translation effects all buffered out of the info flow and then Frank will only report what is clarified and "backed back down to reality".

Rossi has made two attempts to make a direct electricity generating E-Cat version, both attempts were reset after several days of running and restarted after modifying the equipment some more.    Rossi would only say "a wiff of electricity" or "fair progress is being made".

So now Rossi and Frank are engaging in a dialog which is intended to set the stage for something perhaps pretty significant --- a big success or a big bust, you get to pick as your guess is as good as mine at this stage of things.


Frank Acland
July 18, 2019 at 7:32 PM
Dear Andrea,

Interesting that you say a permanently self-sustaining heat-producing E-Cat is very close. Can you help me understand what exactly you mean?

1. Will you need an external power source to start the E-Cat reaction?
2. Will the control system need to be connected to an external power source continuously?
3. Do you need to have access to grid electricity for this?

Thank you very much,

Frank Acland


Andrea Rossi
July 18, 2019 at 8:44 PM
Frank Acland:
1- no
2- no
3- no
But be careful: ” very close ” does not mean ” done ” ( so far ).
Warm Regards,
A.R.

 
Karl Venter  sam • 7 hours ago
I very much Hope Andrea is this right - no external power to start it - no external to run it? That seems incredible / hard to believe?
Hope we wont wait too long for demo?
What would the typical size be? electrical output 20 kW would be incredible?>


Buck • 3 days ago
Rossi is looking for us to get the implications of his comment on discovering that 90 percent is possible!


WaltC
July 15, 2019 at 10:59 PM
Dr. Rossi,
With respect to the possibility of achieving 90% electricity, 10% heat: I find that possibility so very exciting; I wish you every possible success.

If successful, it would be an amazing, break-through product, useful in just about every industry and in every corner of the world. On top of that, it would be an unparalleled engineering achievement and, I have to believe, a seminal scientific advancement.

Best wishes! (And Wow!)

WaltC


Axil Axil • 4 days ago
Victor
July 15, 2019 at 6:21 AM
Dr Rossi,
Can you say which will be the maximum ratio between electricity and heat in case electricity is the main object of demand?

Andrea Rossi
July 15, 2019 at 2:44 PM
Victor:
We should be able to reach 90% electricity, 10% heat if this will be the demand. Still fighting, though.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Axil Axil • 3 days ago • edited
Uh huh.
That’s 225000% electricity, 25000% heat.
Or something like that.


Stephen  Obvious • 3 days ago • edited
We might need to be careful making assumptions along these lines. If it works In this way it could be that if used for electricity the over all Output power drops.

On the other hand if input energy is sourced from the out put then the COP becomes pretty impressive.

I wonder if there is an optimum ratio where the overall out put remains high and the electrical output is also high enough to power the device or higher (hopefully much higher).

If such a device produces electricity from or instead of high energy photons somehow but needs to run hot and generate excess unused waste heat in the process to efficiently generate large amounts of electricity. Perhaps the excess IR heat radiation could be converted to electricity using the nano technology and photovoltaics in the other thread. If that’s 80% efficient at IR wave lengths as claimed then we could potentially have a thermally shielded device with an effective ratio of electricity to heat ratio 98. Even if we can only get high output power with lower ratios it could make the device much more efficient.

Alternatively a strong narrow band IR source could have a whole set of industrial and technical uses especially if it can be made coherent.

Of course these thoughts are just speculative.


Axil Axil • 4 days ago
A target of 90 percent is a significant shift from 20 percent three years ago. Considering his apparent success to date, I am optimistic.


Axil Axil  Buck • 4 days ago • edited
The removal of heat from, the SK is where most of the hardware requirements come from. If Rossi can get the heat production of the SK down to 2.1 kilowatts, then a simple fan can cool the SK. The reason that Rossi wants to produce electrical power only is to reduce the production cost way down. Also, if Rossi is going to build 100 million units, he wants to make sure that the SK is as good as it can possibly be before he gets the robots rolling.


Buck  Axil Axil • 4 days ago • edited
The consequences of selling 5-10 million 2-3Sigma vs. 5-6Sigma units is vastly different . . . especially, as it becomes dramatically simpler to manufacture . . . and as a product of near universal acceptance/desirability. Manufacturing cost is important. But, far less important than reliability and desirability to the long-term health of the Brand.




Self-charging Electrical Cars and self-powered remote living homes are up on the table, boys and girls. 
This thread is getting kinda interesting, so I thought you would want to know about it.

Also note the theoretical understanding behind all of this is getting much better.   Simpler machines are being designed and tested now because the operational theory is getting much more precise and predictive efforts on designing the equipment are possible now.

A really really BIG success or a disappointingly big bust, you get to pick on this one as your guess is as good as mine at this stage of things.

Rossi has sold test units to DARPA and to the Dept of the Air Force and to the Dept of the Navy for several of his various generations of units --- as the military at that time wanted to see if his stuff worked for an intended use and to track the general progress of his tech's usefulness  (i.e. if it was usable at all for their applications).

Rossi has gotten roughly 2x better about every generation, and there have been 6 generations of his stuff since the very beginning.

Eventually, Rossi believes he will have commercially feasible units.   We shall see if this one is the first one inside a year or two.

Rossi still remains 3-5 years ahead of his competitor's technology, always.   I suspect he has not shown his very best current tech publicly on purpose, as Rossi always keeps his best stuff totally under wraps and Rossi only releases his second rank tech for any form of external testing.

This keeps him as the goose that lays the golden eggs ---- and that status helps keep him alive and breathing.


However, his extreme secrecy fetish does slow his public progress down, greatly.    

Rossi is an old man now, and that is a special concern of its very own ......





https://e-catworld.com/2019/07/19/rossi-permanent-self-sustain-e-cat-producin...

One of the things Rossi was asked for by DARPA was a small portable heat source for soldier's tents.   He has been back burnering this for years now, but has just mentioned some progress on it that is coming from his electrical SK research version as a side benefit.

Rossi is saying he can get enough direct produced electricity now out of the new SK to reliably recharge a small battery, and he can stage restart a mulit-cell SK from a cold start off of that same rather small battery.  This means get one cell working using a small battery, take the power from that cell to start the next cell, move to the next cell after it cranks up,  etc. etc.


====================================================


July 23, 2019 at 1:56 PM
Judy:
The QX is the father of the SK and the grandfather of the SK-Leonardo, that will be the first thing in the history to make energy without consuming energy from the grid or from any known energy source, obviously respecting the first principle of thermodynamic. Now, from today, I am convinced we are getting very close to it. We will get it.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Andrea is now convinced that the electrical E-cat, apparently called the ‘SK-Leonardo’, may work soon as hoped for, producing its own electricity to work on and no grid connection is required.