SuzukiSavage.com - Bad Timing

Dave

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Re: Bad Timing
Reply #15 - 08/01/17 at 09:58:02

You should not use the stock head plug....it will fail eventually. You would be much better off if you bought the Verslagen head plug and used it...it won't leak.

Also the stuff between the head and head cover is not Permatex. It is Suzukibond and it behaves differently than other RTV. It sets up slower and gives you more time to work, and it is specifically made for sealing air cooled engines.

http://www.rcsperformanceonline.com/Suzuki_Bond_p/suzuki%20bond.htm

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CaptHowdy Junior Member Offline Old Skool Posts: 58 South Louisiana Gender:	Re: Bad Timing Reply #16 - 08/01/17 at 14:48:21 Verslagen has been pretty good to me in a couple of deals, so I am happy to order a head bolt plug. Is there a Permatex or Loctite equivalent to Suzukibond?
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28889 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Bad Timing Reply #17 - 08/01/17 at 14:49:22 Hondabond, or 3bond
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Dave

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Re: Bad Timing
Reply #18 - 08/02/17 at 04:23:06

CaptHowdy wrote on 08/01/17 at 14:48:21:

Verslagen has been pretty good to me in a couple of deals, so I am happy to order a head bolt plug.

Is there a Permatex or Loctite equivalent to Suzukibond?

The stuff you buy at the autostore is not the same as Suzukibond. It sets up really fast and gives you very little time to work.....and it hardens in the tube very quickly. The Suzukibond sets up slower, it seems to be a bit less slippery as when it comes out of the tube, and it can last years in the tube in your toolbox. The Suzukibond is black and looks good on a black engine, I believe the Hondabond and 3Bond are grey.

Don't do this....nothing screams "I have been worked on" like seeing RTV oozing out of the seams.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Bad Timing Reply #19 - 08/02/17 at 06:39:48 Even IF you can like RTV poking out, don't use it. Yeah, it's been done successfully, but it comes with more opportunity to screw things up. And it Really does look tacky.
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CaptHowdy

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Re: Bad Timing
Reply #20 - 08/06/17 at 15:54:42

I've got the valve timing correctly set now. The cam was off 4 teeth, which I believe was due to the CC adjuster shoulder bolt backing out. I haven't yet put the top cover back on because I'm concerned why I can only turn engine one direction.

The valve cover is removed and the spark plug is out, yet the crank will only turn anti-clockwise when looking at the left side. Given the cover and plug are removed, shouldn't the crank be able to be rocked back and forth a few degrees for fine positioning; in the case of valve timing?

My engine seems to be locked if I try to turn the crank even the slightly clockwise. It makes me feel like there may be something still floating around inside buggering things up. I don't want to box things up until I'm sure I've got everything right.

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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18101 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Bad Timing Reply #21 - 08/06/17 at 16:22:44 Did you take the left side engine cover off, and get the washers on the torque limiter in the wrong place? If you put a washer on the rear idler gear.....the gear is being pinched between the case and cover, and that is preventing the engine from turning over when the starter ratchet mechanism engages.
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28889 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Bad Timing Reply #22 - 08/06/17 at 16:35:24 No you should never turn the crank backwards for timing, you don't want slack in the chain in the normal direction. and 2, the starter clutch will engage and lock it up. if you have the torque limiter gear it will twang and release, if you don't... your pocket book will crack open and large sums of cash will fly out.
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CaptHowdy

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Re: Bad Timing
Reply #23 - 08/06/17 at 17:47:03

Dave, yes I removed the left side cover and I could have easily got the washers wrong. I can only work on the engine a few hours a month because I spend a lot of time working offshore. I will investigate the washers next weekend. Excellent advice--thank you.

Meantime, I'm paralized with fear that large sums of cash are positioning to fly out of my pockets!

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Bad Timing Reply #24 - 08/06/17 at 19:22:28 e I spend a lot of time working offshore. Hopefully you can fix it for cheap, but, if not, you can handle it, right?
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CaptHowdy

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Re: Bad Timing
Reply #25 - 08/13/17 at 16:07:45

Today, I did a dry-fit on the valve cover to double-check valve operation vs. piston position vs crank and cam shaft timing marks. I declared the task a total success.

I still have my issue with the left side cover pinching/ preventing the starter from turning/engaging. There's always next weekend...

PS This gives me time to order my Suzuki Bond! Doesn't seem like the best design--a flexible seal between the rockers and the valve stems. How to get an accurate clearance between the cams and the rockers and valve stems with an elastic joint? I know; there isn't enough difference to make a difference.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Bad Timing Reply #26 - 08/13/17 at 16:19:52 The elasticity allows you to Slowly Carefully After many gentle passes around the bolts To get the cover down tight. Then it doesn't move. Don't use much. A thin application. Don't want to have it squeezing out and going places.
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CaptHowdy

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Re: Bad Timing
Reply #27 - 09/06/17 at 07:02:28

After removing left side cover, I discovered three shim washers dropped out and now looking for a home. The parts lists shows one shim goes outside the starter clutch gear, and I'm guessing the other two go on either side of the starter idler gear. I'm posting this question since I realized "guessing" is not the best strategy.

The valve cover is back on the engine with Suzukibond and torqued to 8 ft lbs.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28889 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Bad Timing Reply #28 - 09/06/17 at 07:23:05 Nope guess again. 1 on each side of the torque gear. None on the idle gear.
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Bad Timing
Reply #29 - 09/06/17 at 07:35:54

CaptHowdy wrote on 09/06/17 at 07:02:28:

After removing left side cover, I discovered three shim washers dropped out and now looking for a home. The parts lists shows one shim goes outside the starter clutch gear, and I'm guessing the other two go on either side of the starter idler gear. I'm posting this question since I realized "guessing" is not the best strategy.

The valve cover is back on the engine with Suzukibond and torqued to 8 ft lbs.

How many passes through the torque pattern did you make?

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