SuzukiSavage.com - Bad Timing

CaptHowdy Junior Member Offline Old Skool Posts: 58 South Louisiana Gender:	Bad Timing 07/30/17 at 08:59:53 Timing marks don't line up. Motor turns freely with good compression. Hoping I don't have to pull the head.
Back to top	'00 Suzuki LS650 '97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 '89 HD FXD '15 BMW K1600GTL '03 Honda GL1800 IP Logged

CaptHowdy Junior Member Offline Old Skool Posts: 58 South Louisiana Gender:	Re: Bad Timing Reply #1 - 07/30/17 at 10:00:09 Here's how the marks compare. I'll read up on what to do next.
Back to top	IMG_1957-1.JPG '00 Suzuki LS650 '97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 '89 HD FXD '15 BMW K1600GTL '03 Honda GL1800 IP Logged

CaptHowdy Junior Member Offline Old Skool Posts: 58 South Louisiana Gender:	Re: Bad Timing Reply #2 - 07/30/17 at 10:01:17 Hers the other end.
Back to top	IMG_1956_001.JPG '00 Suzuki LS650 '97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 '89 HD FXD '15 BMW K1600GTL '03 Honda GL1800 IP Logged

kiwi rider 89 YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 23	Re: Bad Timing Reply #3 - 07/30/17 at 17:06:17 Hay I replaced me cam chain a few weeks ago with a retied bike mechanic here are 2 pic's of how he found top dead center for timing (fyi both side covers where removed)
Back to top	IP Logged

kiwi rider 89 YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 23	Re: Bad Timing Reply #4 - 07/30/17 at 17:10:42 1
Back to top	20543050_1792113410803396_463840380_o.jpg IP Logged

kiwi rider 89 YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 23	Re: Bad Timing Reply #5 - 07/30/17 at 17:11:13 2 left side
Back to top	20590887_1792113417470062_744916199_o.jpg IP Logged

Savageman

Senior Member

Offline

Knowledge is half
the battle

Posts: 275
Marysville, California
Gender: male

Re: Bad Timing
Reply #6 - 07/30/17 at 23:36:15

I'd make darn sure you are using the correct timing marks on the alternator to get to proper TDC. If you aren't at TDC (compression stroke) then valve timing will be off when you assemble the chain.
An old trick. Pull the spark plug and put a straw in the hole. Then turn the crankshaft slowly until the straw is up as high as it will go. Then check your marks. And make sure it's TDC on the compression stroke. Both intake and exhaust valves will be closed and have clearance on rockers. If your cam is off then pull the sprocket and move the chain to make it line up with marks.

Back to top

IP Logged

CaptHowdy

Junior Member

Offline

Old Skool

Posts: 58
South Louisiana
Gender: male

Re: Bad Timing
Reply #7 - 07/31/17 at 12:52:11

She's jumped time by golly. With the valve cover off, I can see the cam lobes are all facing down with the piston TDC. The crank marks are lined up as they should, but the cam mark looks 3 or 4 teeth off. Clutch cover coming off tonight so I can at the CC tensioner.

Is the cam shaft two-piece? That is, the sprocket has to come to line the cam shaft up? I can see where there's no good way move the chain from under the crank, unless i plan to replace the chain.

Back to top

'00 Suzuki LS650
'97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
'89 HD FXD
'15 BMW K1600GTL
'03 Honda GL1800

IP Logged

verslagen1

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28787
L.A. California
Gender: male

Re: Bad Timing
Reply #8 - 07/31/17 at 13:19:08

CaptHowdy wrote on 07/31/17 at 12:52:11:

She's jumped time by golly. With the valve cover off, I can see the cam lobes are all facing down with the piston TDC. The crank marks are lined up as they should, but the cam mark looks 3 or 4 teeth off. Clutch cover coming off tonight so I can at the CC tensioner.

Is the cam shaft two-piece? That is, the sprocket has to come to line the cam shaft up? I can see where there's no good way move the chain from under the crank, unless i plan to replace the chain.

I'm surprised, I tried to get the chain to jump and couldn't do it.
I guess that's like idiot proof. Didn't have the right one.
The gear is bolted to the cam, unbolt it then you can slide it over so you can pull the cam.
Don't remember if you can shift the chain w/out pulling the cam.
Wait, you must be able to.
You can pull the guide down to get more slack, not easy to put though, but can be done.

Back to top

Versey's Place
Tech Section Index

IP Logged

verslagen1

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28787
L.A. California
Gender: male

Re: Bad Timing
Reply #9 - 07/31/17 at 13:20:57

Savageman wrote on 07/30/17 at 23:36:15:

I'd make darn sure you are using the correct timing marks on the alternator to get to proper TDC. If you aren't at TDC (compression stroke) then valve timing will be off when you assemble the chain.
An old trick. Pull the spark plug and put a straw in the hole. Then turn the crankshaft slowly until the straw is up as high as it will go. Then check your marks. And make sure it's TDC on the compression stroke. Both intake and exhaust valves will be closed and have clearance on rockers. If your cam is off then pull the sprocket and move the chain to make it line up with marks.

W/out the cam, when is the compression stroke?

answer: every stroke.

Back to top

Versey's Place
Tech Section Index

IP Logged

Savageman

Senior Member

Offline

Knowledge is half
the battle

Posts: 275
Marysville, California
Gender: male

Re: Bad Timing
Reply #10 - 07/31/17 at 14:21:05

You mentioned the cam lobes are facing down? If so then you are not on the compression stroke. Cam lobes need to be facing up at TDC. Replacing any valve train components is a very detail oriented job and you need to know what you are doing or you will blow the engine. Piston may come up and hit the valves if timing is wrong. Then time for a new top end.

You unbolt the cam sprocket to move the chain. Time to buy a service manual.

Back to top

IP Logged

verslagen1

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28787
L.A. California
Gender: male

Re: Bad Timing
Reply #11 - 07/31/17 at 14:45:35

Savageman wrote on 07/31/17 at 14:21:05:

You mentioned the cam lobes are facing down? If so then you are not on the compression stroke. Cam lobes need to be facing up at TDC. Replacing any valve train components is a very detail oriented job and you need to know what you are doing or you will blow the engine. Piston may come up and hit the valves if timing is wrong. Then time for a new top end.

You unbolt the cam sprocket to move the chain. Time to buy a service manual.

You'll notice in the pic, lobes are down. Also note the alignment pin at 1 o'clock (viewed from other side)
Lobes up will depress valves which is not TDC.

Back to top

Versey's Place
Tech Section Index

IP Logged

Savageman Senior Member Offline Knowledge is half the battle Posts: 275 Marysville, California Gender:	Re: Bad Timing Reply #12 - 07/31/17 at 15:02:50 TDC (compression stroke) and cam lobes facing down is correct. A service manual is also a good reference to have if this is a first time job. You always want to double check that the valves are closed if you've had the cam out. You can make any TDC a compression stroke when installing a chain and or new cam components.
Back to top	IP Logged

kiwi rider 89 YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 23	Re: Bad Timing Reply #13 - 07/31/17 at 20:48:44 sorry i forgot to say the pics are with the lobes facing down I hope the pic's are of help
Back to top	IP Logged

CaptHowdy

Junior Member

Offline

Old Skool

Posts: 58
South Louisiana
Gender: male

Re: Bad Timing
Reply #14 - 08/01/17 at 09:52:28

While I have the valve cover off, I might as well do some preventive maintenance like torque the head bolts, clean up the head plug (mine don't leak oil, yet) and inspection cover o-rings, adjust valves (once the cover is back on). Odd that there is no gasket between the valve cover and top of the cylinder head...just Permatex. Finally, I'll clean all the dirt, grime and mud dobber nest off, then paint the valve cover flat black (high temp paint). Am I missing anything?

PS The above will happen once I get the CC and valve timing sorted out.

Back to top

'00 Suzuki LS650
'97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
'89 HD FXD
'15 BMW K1600GTL
'03 Honda GL1800

IP Logged