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LENR hits "Public Demonstration" stage (Read 254 times)
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LENR hits "Public Demonstration" stage
07/14/17 at 16:37:48
 

http://e-catworld.com/2017/07/14/mfmp-plan-and-proposal-regarding-ecco-device/

You got Rossi, ECCO, and several other little guys out there going for the "public demonstration" level of LENR inside this calendar year.

When the time comes, MFMP actually goes to these places with their own equipment and open tests the results -- so far they have debunked one and partially verified one.  

The partially verified one is open source and has now offered to sell the entire set-up and rig to MFMP so they can take it home after the next demo and complete their verification in detail at a non-frantic pace (and increase their understanding of the process).  The equipment price is only $329,000 and MFMP has internet commits for over half that amount at this time with them only starting talking about doing it.  

There is a healthy debate going on now between those who want to just test and report and those who wouldn't mind owning a chunk of it as a public open source project.

Issue with all players is that the "partially verified" LENR one in Mumbai India is a fairly low COP and it has a lot of extraneous ultra-sonic equipment as part of the process -- it isn't something that would fit in my room heater, in other words.  Nor in a car, nor a motorcycle, nor hot water heater, etc. etc.

Some folks are saying they are really spending $25 a head to force Mills and Brillouin and Rossi to all move off of dead center and show what they got, since if MFMP can coax this one to fly then the market is first broached going off in that direction.

I think we are now deep into the "messy zone" of the birth of a new technology.  that zone that electrocutes elephants and does other sorts of stupid stunts like that.


=======================================


Note to all .....   in this stage it (whatever it is) will all be replaced by some new tech inside of 5 years time.  And this will be repeated until the technology matures.  At Niagara Falls power station, generator 1, 2, 3 and 4 represent this sort of constant knowledge evolution and codify how much better this stuff gets given a year or 3 or five or 10.
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« Last Edit: 07/28/17 at 19:24:37 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: LENR hits the "Public Demonstration" sta
Reply #1 - 07/14/17 at 16:50:45
 
If he don't hurry it up,.. the Sun will burn out before this gizmo is realized...
I think that's what he's secretly waiting for... Grin

Sure ain't gonna' hold my breathe... Undecided
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Re: LENR hits the "Public Demonstration
Reply #2 - 07/14/17 at 17:12:59
 

What you are going to see is a flurry of patent activity in attempts to tie down unique aspects of their particular methodology before it gets open sourced.

Both Mills and Rossi are in motion to develop tech that allows LENR to work at its natural rate (run away increasing heat).   Mills does this by using a pair of "water fountain flows" of molten silver to make his electrode arc connections and Rossi designs itty bitty tiny reactors (pencil lead thin reactors) out of extremely heat resistant materials that then reside directly in a cooling bath of liquid cooling medium (molten lead) which also provides shielding from the occasional accidental creation of "odd misc. particles" items which are NOT included in the primary LENR reaction which is always held captive by the strong nuclear forces inside the nickel matrix system.

Rossi tech is most similar to the ECCO tech out of India.   Rossi is just generations further along in his development, but he has not divulged or patented all his tricks yet so he is prone to getting scooped by ECCO.

There will be lawyers in action over LENR's progress from now on, I do believe.   The approaches all have zones of overlap that if the ECCO folks show a working OPEN SOURCE process first that then it all become open source (unable to get a patent) from here on out.

This is the main reason the "let's not get into it" folks want to stay out of the actual projects right now beyond verifying them -- as being dragged into court isn't their sort of thing, at all.
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« Last Edit: 07/14/17 at 18:13:18 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: LENR hits the "Public Demonstration
Reply #3 - 07/14/17 at 20:47:37
 
Okay, I'll bite.  WTF are you guys talking about?  I read the link it's no more clear than the encoded exchange posted here.
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Re: LENR hits the "Public Demonstration"
Reply #4 - 07/14/17 at 22:40:36
 

Well, that sure makes me feel all mysterious --- this is something JOG follows and understands and Serowbot makes jokes and cracks funny about.

Gotta give him at least a clue.

LENR =

L low
E energy
N nuclear
R reaction

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Re: LENR hits the "Public Demonstration"
Reply #5 - 07/15/17 at 02:15:15
 
I'm hoping it works..
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Re: LENR hits the "Public Demonstration"
Reply #6 - 07/15/17 at 06:46:24
 
Thanks Oldfeller.  The politics of science.  I get it now!
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Re: LENR hits the "Public Demonstration
Reply #7 - 07/18/17 at 09:55:19
 

http://e-catworld.com/2017/07/18/rossi-ih-settlement-published-rossi-gets-bac...

Read it, Rossi did not seek $$$ from a stripped defunct IH corpse (waste of time, that) instead he insisted that all IP materials (no matter to whom the copy was distributed to -- it comes back to Rossi, physically, ASAP), all manufactured tech materials and the complete Doral 1 megawatt plant and all and any components built to support any version of E-cat that were built by IH, Cherokee or any IH/Cherokee puppet would be returned to Rossi ASAP.

https://animpossibleinvention.com/2017/07/18/heres-the-settlement-getting-the-li
cense-back-was-rossis-top-priority/

IH has NO rights to even have any separate part or piece of E-Cat tech and any that is kept by them or one of their puppets would be cause for criminal charges past this point.  

IH has no sales area and no right to say they can even peddle a single Ecat device (or a single component either).

https://animpossibleinvention.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/settlement-agreement.p
df

Brillouin will have to seek a separate license from Rossi for what they have incorporated into Brillouin's internal stuff -- or else they will get skinned in court according to this binding agreement with IH and Cherokee (who owns their butts).

Woodford is the biggest loser in all of this -- and Woodford should be suing Cherokee, IH and Darden separately for fraud, misrepresentation of IP ownership and other various forms of lying dog type stuff.
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Re: LENR hits the "Public Demonstration
Reply #8 - 07/18/17 at 11:09:03
 

ME356 is a bust, he has NO REACTOR that works, period.   All of them have melted a hole in the reactor itself.

The ultrasonic based ECCO is a bust as of today, you got an Indian bank manager thinks he owns that tech now because Sudas has defaulted the loan on the building that the lab is in and the Bank Manager has slapped a padlock on the door claiming all the contents as his bank's property by loan default.

So, the only one who has something unentangled that actually works is Rossi at this point.

Mills still hasn't demoed anything that didn't melt instantly when it was demo'd.

Brillouin is all entangled with Rossi tech that they cannot use now, so they are off the table now as a player unless Rossi grants them a license.
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Re: LENR hits the "Public Demonstration
Reply #9 - 07/22/17 at 16:43:54
 

Rossi has proposed a demo with enough specifics to get the peanut gallery to comment on what they see wrong with it.

So far, so good --- got some good questions concerning power draw during run vs power draw during warm up.   Folks are choking on how low the energy cost is to run the thing once it is warmed up and running (negligible energy to monitor the system).

Folks are saying that perhaps (in their reading of the info provided) they are thinking that the steady state is in essence a "run away SSM" that only ends if the control excitation circuit loses power.   Less than a cell phone charger power draw is required during SSM run.

You pay energy to crank it up, then it runs on its own until it is turned off ---- or the powder inside is exhausted (many months).


=======================================







Crank up power required is 24 volts that can be supplied from DC batteries.

Entire rig can be set up on a glass table so no secret wires are possible.

Much discussion on the easiest ACCURATE way to do calorimetry using a flow of mineral oil instead of water.   Got some real good discussions about the best method and the exact best math to use.

Rossi has a room sized mini automated assembly system that was part of the Doral stuff that he now owns as part of his settlement.   Rossi could automate a testing rig up using that line to make lots of sample units that he could then sell to universities and such to:

1) prove out his tech -- solidify his patents  

2) advertise all the potential uses to a world full of manufacturing customers

Rossi has industrial commercial production approvals already, but the manufacturer of a "final to the consumer" type of product would have to go through UL in detail with each individual manufactured product before it could be shipped to consumers.
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« Last Edit: 07/23/17 at 09:56:37 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: LENR hits the "Public Demonstration"
Reply #10 - 07/22/17 at 17:07:14
 
approvals already, but the manufacturer of a "final to the consumer" type of product would have to go through UL in detail with each individual manufactured product before it could be shipped to consumers.



Yeah, wouldn't wanna let people follow the development and choose to risk your own FRIKKEN MONEY..
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Re: LENR hits the "Public Demonstration
Reply #11 - 07/25/17 at 19:22:14
 

Rossi has now released two papers co-written with other technical experts, released just now because until he owned his stuff IP unconvertibly both he and his co-writers wanted to stay out of the E-Cat court battle completely over the E-Cat X extension topic.

Rossi owns his all his IP again now, so the info is flowing again.    Obviously, the co-writers of these papers needed to see and review the stuff in detail to write the formulas, etc.

E-Cat X can start itself up off of 24 volts DC (chopped with an interrupter to make higher starting voltages as needed).  Think of a mercury vapor light and how it buzzes when it first starts up.  Once lit, the E-Cat  X runs in 100% SSM using a .014 watt control current while generating a back voltage of  +.102 volts which will be re-charging the batteries.

Each controller can run a string of 100 little bitty 20 watt reactors.   So, I could have a 1500 watt room heater off this tech as it sits right now.   Cheap, too.  Rossi estimates material costs for his reactors at 2-3 cents per watt with a 100% constant use time of at least one year.

You can daisy chain these things as they start up in series, as once they are properly lit the internal resistance for a reactor drops down to close to zero (approximating the resistance of silver wire according to Rossi).

Mobile equipment is VERY possible, in other words .....
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« Last Edit: 07/28/17 at 19:16:08 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: LENR hits the "Public Demonstration
Reply #12 - 07/28/17 at 19:21:07
 

http://e-catworld.com/2017/07/27/rossi-testing-multiple-quarkx-reactors-for-p...

Rossi is working up assemblies that will be 250 watt, 500 watt, 1000 watt, 1500 watt, 2000 watt etc etc etc (repeat as needed).

From the very start, folks need to see modular assemblies that are driven by a refined controller box that are dirt easy to replace and VERY VERY reliable.  

Anything other than this is a net negative for Rossi at this point and he'd be a fool to show it.
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Re: LENR hits "Public Demonstration" sta
Reply #13 - 08/01/17 at 19:03:11
 

Folks have wormed enough details out of Rossi to realize that he hasn't finished or polished his ecat core sets / controller box to the degree that was commonly assumed.

He will go into the demo showing enough chained cores to clearly OUTPUT EXCEED the power needed to ignite and run them.   His batteries will be sized carefully to allow him to exceed their total energy storage fairly quickly in the constant run portion of the demo.

Rossi is unwilling to demo more than a half day of steady run time as once he shows the start/stop tricks a few times doing it some more becomes repetitive and unnecessary.    

Next, using a freshly charged pair of batteries of known capacity, he will go for a steady state run of some length.  Once Rossi has clearly doubled the total amount of output energy that is possible from the storage batteries (preferably while recharging the batteries back up to full at the same time) it is all "excess gravy" from then on out.

This is the sort of clear demo that folks are wishing for.

1) As part of the demo, Rossi is seeking the ongoing help of a CONTROLS partner to help cost reduce and reliability improve his control box and then to manufacture it in volume.    His controls are by far the most expensive part of his rig at this time.

2) He is seeking a market area manufacturing partner or two, folks who can implement E-Cat tech into their existing products, folks with the money and the expertise to do this.   People having applications that fit well with what the E-Cat can do, right now.

Rossi has always been a developmental or "exploratory" scientist -- for example many of the things in his control box ARE NOT NEEDED for an established production process.    He does need some help to stop "over complicating things" and to stick with ONLY the basic control needs of his E-Cat X's first products.   Manufacturing of a real product needs to be safe, but have no unnecessary frills in it.  

Rossi has added much cost to the E-Cat controls in the past trying to collect data on this and prove that -- this all needs to go away now.

The main danger to the E-Cat X demo and the following roll out is and remains Rossi.   Rossi "getting a case of the arse" and becoming uncommunicative and withdrawn because somebody punches on some of his many buttons or by publicly doubting him or his assertions.  

Rossi having fired or sued his partners in the recent past doesn't help this "stubborn Rossi" image problem either.

This has been a consistent problem going back 2-3 partners --- Rossi's personality is and remains the biggest stumbling block issue out there.

Mills also suffers from his "sue you Mills" image and he too needs to work very hard to shake his bad image going forward.

Tongue
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« Last Edit: 08/03/17 at 18:12:55 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: LENR hits "Public Demonstration" sta
Reply #14 - 08/03/17 at 13:21:57
 
 
http://e-catworld.com/2017/08/03/mfmp-claims-proof-of-lenr-live-video-now/

Tongue

In working with 3 different LENR approaches by 3 different groups just recently, MFMP has gotten cross verification of the source of energetic transmutations and the release of bursts of NEUTRONS and high energy gamma radiation that seems to happen in strong spikes at certain temperatures but only in stainless steel cased reactors, resulting in a small localized very strong local reaction that melts a hole in the side of the reactor 100% of the time, releasing your lithium hydrogen gas and killing your reactor.

There have been many many many many of these "holed out" reactors over the years.

This is not the intended base reaction, it is not desired, and it is now considered a short lived radiation hazard by all four groups so they are now explaining the mechanism clearly so it can be 1) avoided and 2) properly shielded against.

The reaction is coming from chrome vanadium steel (the Vanadium is a very minor alloying element of steel)   with only 2% of the small amount of Vanadium that is trapped in the steel alloy being of a Vanadium isotope that can join into this sort of fun.   But it is in there, always.

Titanium is another element that has a small sub isotope that can do this high energy neutron emitter error thing.   As a matter of fact, the transmutation of Vanadium actually becomes Titanium in this reaction and then does the reaction yet once again as Titanium.   This 2-3 part "cascade chain" is why it makes a short lived VERY HOT SPOT that vaporizes the steel reactor wall --  because it is a high energy cascade that is taking place inside of the steel wall itself at a microscopic level.


=========================================


Rossi and the others already know about this which is why they no longer use steel in their primary containment vessels (they use also like to use heat proof ceramics because of the high heats involved in their current reactors) with the non-neutron producing nature of ceramics having been known to them for a long time now).

LENR is transmutation based energy -- we have known this for a while now.

MOST LENR Nickel / Lithium transmutations are rather slow and naturally stay inside of a nickel matrix, but some Vanadium / Titanium transmutations are VERY FAST and emit fast neutrons and gamma radiation for their very very short duration lives.


So, some transmutations are undesirable and result in sudden multi-level cascades that produce particles and neutrons that are high energy and that always destroy your reactor.

All experimenters should begin using lead shielding and Borax and wax (20 mule team borax powder and paraffin binder) around their steel walled reactors as a fast particle / fast neutron slowing shield in any steel based reactor experiments -- and they should EXPECT those steel walled reactors to ALL 100% blow out eventually from an internal hot spot that develops inside the steel wall itself.

Rossi has always incorporated a molten lead shielding layer in all his reactors all along.  Pantinelli taught him to do this early on as a "thing to do".   This lead serves as a cheap primary heat resistant transfer fluid that doubles as a radiation shielding layer.  

MFMP is concerned about garage experimenters getting an abrupt dose of hard radiation in the face as their steel reactor holes out, so they are WARNING all the experimenter crew to stay away from steel sided reactors going forward.
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« Last Edit: 08/03/17 at 15:09:17 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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