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wolverine! (Read 301 times)
batman
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Re: wolverine!
Reply #15 - 07/14/17 at 16:20:53
 
Leather Snowmobile mittens with zip up gauntlets.(you don't need fingered gloves to ride a motorcycle) wind can't move between your fingers or up the arms of your jacket.
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Re: wolverine!
Reply #16 - 07/15/17 at 17:57:30
 
WELL IT'S TIME TO GET BACK ON TOPIC!  The Golden Rule for oil pressure is 10 psi for every 1000 rpm, and our oil pumps are sized to do it. Once that pressure is produced ,pressure fails to be a factor. The problem is OIL ,There is no oil on the face of the earth that provides proper lubrication at cold startup! While it's true that your oil thickens as it reaches temperature ,it's also true that it thickens when it gets cold, (can't start your bike on a really cold day? it's not because your coolant or your gas froze)and cold oil doesn't flow as readily through the small passages in your motor. The fact is you have fuel, but the oil flow either doesn't seal the rings or the drag from the cold oil puts more load on the battery( due to the oil pump or the starter having to work harder )and slows cranking speed,it affects compression ,and draws more amps from the battery which may drop voltage low (causing spark failure) so that it doesn't start.Cold oil doesn't produce as thick a film layer between moving parts until it warns. If your bike is in Florida on a 75 degree day it still has to heat the oil nearly 200 degrees before the motor is at full operating temperature and during this time is when the wear occurs .But if you heated the oil ,on a cold day, the bike would start and you might not even have to use the choke.preoilers are probably a waste of money,your oil pump is gear driven,which means it's a positive displacement pump,when the pump stops flow stops ,and shouldn't return to the oil sump ,(your pump doesn't run backward)oil in the passages stays there ,oil can drip off the piston and cylinder ,but the cam lobes are setting in a "tub " of oil,and this is where we fear the most damage.
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« Last Edit: 07/16/17 at 17:33:16 by batman »  

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Dave
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Re: wolverine!
Reply #17 - 07/17/17 at 04:21:39
 
batman wrote on 07/15/17 at 17:57:30:
 The Golden Rule for oil pressure is 10 psi for every 1000 rpm,


Who says?.....small block Chevy drag racers?  Unless you can provide reliable source for this statement - I don't feel you should keep posting this as being applicable to the Savage.

I don't believe this 10 psi rule of thumb is applicable to an engine with roller and ball bearings....they don't need pressure - they just need a small amount of flow to keep them lubed. The only "plain" bearings in the engine is the cam bearings....and they only fail when somebody runs their idle speed too low and there is almost no oil pressure or flow.  Bearing failures are not an issue on the Savage if the oil level is maintained and the idle speed is not too low (even for those folks who ride in cold climates).  

]batman wrote on 07/15/17 at 17:57:30:
(can't start your bike on a really cold day? it's not because your coolant or your gas froze).


Gasoline doesn't vaporize well in cold temperatures....and it is even worse for E10.

The lead acid battery also loses significant power in cold temperatures.

And the residual oil layer between moving parts may not be "thick" in dimension......it is thick in "viscosity" and does create additional drag during a "cold" start.  This is not much of an issue for the ball and roller bearings in the Savage engine - but the piston/cylinder/rings do have a significant drag when the residual oil is cold and viscous.
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« Last Edit: 07/17/17 at 05:58:08 by Dave »  

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Re: wolverine!
Reply #18 - 07/17/17 at 06:34:20
 
I don't know what psi we need at the top end, but along the lines of what Dave said...

2-stroke lower end bearings (main, lower and upper rod) are lubed with a blast of pre-mix every other stroke.  That mixture is pressurized for a very brief instant before the intake ports are exposed to bring it into the combustion chamber.  2-strokes run roller bearings at high RPMs with very little lubrication.

Our real concern is the cam bearings. Carry on.  Smiley
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Re: wolverine!
Reply #19 - 07/17/17 at 07:49:33
 
There is no set equations for oil pressure from engine to engine ! You can not use what works on a chevy 350 on a Savage. There are to many variables between engines as in number of cylinders, types of bearing,types of pumps & design of engine. It just doesn't work that way.
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Re: wolverine!
Reply #20 - 07/17/17 at 15:44:42
 
The source of my oil pressure golden rule was in fact car based ,(my bad),but no matter what our oil pressure is ,the rest of what I said about oil flow is none the less true.
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Re: wolverine!
Reply #21 - 07/17/17 at 18:58:49
 
When building racing V8s a lot of builders would rather a high volume pump with a adjustable pressure relief to control the pressure, too high a pressure will unseat crank & rod bearings and cause them to spin. High volume is better than a too high of a pressure.
Oil pumps are designed for a specific needs / engines , amounts of volume to supply specific number of journals/bearings to be fed at a intended pressure to enough at idle/low rpm and too almost too much at high rpms.If I build another Savage engine then I will investigate increasing low rpm supply to head without starving the lower end. Not sure if anyone here has tried this yet , but sounds like fun to me. R & D is funnest when it hasn't been tried before !
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