SuzukiSavage.com - How Repulicans fix things.

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Re: How Repulicans fix things.
Reply #15 - 05/05/17 at 09:08:30

Donald Trump admits universal healthcare is better
"Right now Obamacare is failing. We have a failing — I shouldn't say this to our great gentleman and my friend from Australia, because you have better healthcare than we do…” he said."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/bernie-sanders-laughs-donald-trump-130640437.html

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Re: How Repulicans fix things.
Reply #16 - 05/05/17 at 09:13:57

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 05/05/17 at 08:58:02:

So, I'm "Subsidized " by criminals when they Don't break in and Steal what's mine?

If you're convinced that because BCBS was , uhh, subsidized, and that made it worse than wholly controlled by the goobs health care, please explain.

What I'm saying is, you keep pining for the pre HMO days when there was a "free" market...
... but the care you loved was government subsidized...
You should be pining for an National Health...
A government subsidized healthcare for all...
Medicare for all...

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: How Repulicans fix things. Reply #17 - 05/05/17 at 09:33:41 Even IF I agreed that Not Taxing equals Subsidy, I wouldn't agree that what you want isn't a disaster. I'm tired of explaining the GAME. You're being sold more lies.
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Re: How Repulicans fix things.
Reply #18 - 05/05/17 at 11:07:44

A simple question:
Should a persons cost to having healthcare be based on personal lifestyle habits that cause poorer health?

Please do not try and extend the argument to life choices like riding a motorcycle, etc....

Let's keep it simple. A person who smokes creates greater health cost issues. If I don't smoke, shouldn't my cost be lower as a result?

I get this benefit now, why not if we go to some universal mandated HC?

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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: How Repulicans fix things. Reply #19 - 05/05/17 at 11:17:05 Introducing that thinking opens the door to Total Nanny State control/taxation/penalty for Everything that is a Risk Chosen . If you eat ice cream now you could become diabetic, so, tax ice cream makers and penalize the people who eat it.
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Re: How Repulicans fix things.
Reply #20 - 05/05/17 at 11:17:08

raydawg wrote on 05/05/17 at 11:07:44:

A simple question:
Should a persons cost to having healthcare be based on personal lifestyle habits that cause poorer health?

No. If you do, then the hippocratic oath is null and void.

Please do not try and extend the argument to life choices like riding a motorcycle, etc....

Let's keep it simple. A person who smokes creates greater health cost issues. If I don't smoke, shouldn't my cost be lower as a result?

That's not always the case. There are always exceptions.

I get this benefit now, why not if we go to some universal mandated HC?

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Re: How Repulicans fix things.
Reply #21 - 05/05/17 at 12:05:38

The cost of freedom is always high; sometimes it is lives, always it is taxes. If you want to be free to choose your poisons and lifestyles then you must accept that others should have the same choices. So in a health care system, how do you balance it out? Some say smoking is evil, lay on a surcharge. Others say fried everything, lay on a surcharge.
Some even say motorcycling, lay on a surcharge.
You can do this draw the line thing but it really is impossible, not everyone who smokes has catastrophic (financially) results. Not every motorcyclist either (thankfully). So the only real choice, I think, is to accept the bad with the good (the freedom of choice) and let everyone suck up the sustenance they need from the common pool (and Heaven knows there are some things I find awful).

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raydawg Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 11551 pacific northwest Gender:	Re: How Repulicans fix things. Reply #22 - 05/05/17 at 12:05:49 I don't get the oath angle, but both the arguments seem to feed the problem that we can somehow extend this safety net to to accommodate to the point of enabling all behavior as Ok and not argue about cost, etc... I guess my perception is just too deep into believing I must hold myself accountable to my own self worth.
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Re: How Repulicans fix things.
Reply #23 - 05/05/17 at 12:45:30

raydawg wrote on 05/05/17 at 12:05:49:

I don't get the oath angle, but both the arguments seem to feed the problem that we can somehow extend this safety net to to accommodate to the point of enabling all behavior as Ok and not argue about cost, etc...

The oath my have been out of left field, but my point was everyone deserves equal treatment. Now, since you brought it up - wouldn't motorcycle riding be considered a lifestyle choice? Just because you say "don't bring it up" doesn't negate the fact that it is indeed more dangerous than driving a car.... so...?

I guess my perception is just too deep into believing I must hold myself accountable to my own self worth.

I'm glad you do that - more of us should, but we don't live in the ayn rand utopia. This is the real world. The fact is, just because you have a particular hobby/habit, should not exclude you from the same benefits as everyone else. Should you pay more... I dunno, good question.

- smokers already pay a more for life insurance as do motorcyclists, so there's that...

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Dagillespi Junior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 94 NW Pennsylvania Gender:	Re: How Repulicans fix things. Reply #24 - 05/05/17 at 14:42:20 All I know is my coverage has gotten a lot worse since Obama Care. I mean horribly worse.
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Re: How Repulicans fix things.
Reply #25 - 05/05/17 at 14:56:41

Dagillespi wrote on 05/05/17 at 14:42:20:

All I know is my coverage has gotten a lot worse since Obama Care. I mean horribly worse.

I'm curious - how so? Is it costing more out of pocket? Did your prior coverage have the same levels of coverage?

Mine hasn't changed a bit. It costs a little more, by my coverage levels have stayed the same.

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Re: How Repulicans fix things.
Reply #26 - 05/05/17 at 16:01:45

T And T Garage wrote on 05/05/17 at 12:45:30:

raydawg wrote on 05/05/17 at 12:05:49:

I don't get the oath angle, but both the arguments seem to feed the problem that we can somehow extend this safety net to to accommodate to the point of enabling all behavior as Ok and not argue about cost, etc...

The oath my have been out of left field, but my point was everyone deserves equal treatment. Now, since you brought it up - wouldn't motorcycle riding be considered a lifestyle choice? Just because you say "don't bring it up" doesn't negate the fact that it is indeed more dangerous than driving a car.... so...?

I guess my perception is just too deep into believing I must hold myself accountable to my own self worth.

I'm glad you do that - more of us should, but we don't live in the ayn rand utopia. This is the real world. The fact is, just because you have a particular hobby/habit, should not exclude you from the same benefits as everyone else. Should you pay more... I dunno, good question.

- smokers already pay a more for life insurance as do motorcyclists, so there's that...

Pay more in a private system, not public, that is the crux of a society who caved into thinking the possibility of a level playing field exsist, it doesn't, the NBA being a perfect example, shouldn't everyone be afforded the same opportunity?
It's not their fault they were born short or lacking in skills.

Anyway, I left out life risk, because none expect to have an accident, but like being a cop, you assume a higher occupational risk, like I ride to reduce my footprint and time management, were it allows me to be more productive.....
Smoking, alcohol, drugs, poor diet, lack of exercise, has no upside and adds to the cost of society.
At some point we will have to say no, we won't subsidize bad behavior and choices because you want it....

It's coming, the current thinking is not sustainable AND removes from the truely in need resources they should get, and not lumped together with suspicion and stigma oft associated to "welfare"

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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)

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Re: How Repulicans fix things.
Reply #27 - 05/06/17 at 15:50:35

“ … It’s like repairing potholes with dynamite… …”

How interesting.
Having, Repaired , ‘potholes’. !!!!
‘ dynamite’, (Although a very a ‘extreme’, method).
Is, on it’s face, a VERY VALID, way !!!!!
Normally, one, ‘digs’ them out.
But hey, got a, ‘big’ pothole?

If you just fill it, (or even dig it out, then fill),
And fill it in with ’Soft’ things, it WILL NOT LAST !
It soon will be a, pothole again.

If you fill it, (or dig it out),
then fill it in, with Just Hard things,
It will last MUCH Longer,
BUT, it will Still, become a pothole.

Pothole, you dig it out, to, ‘hard’ ground,
Then fill it with ‘Hard’, things,
Then put a layer, (dome it), with, ’Soft’ things, over it.
It will Last as long as the road is maintained.

What part of, ‘FREE”, do NOT, the, ’Snowflakes’, understand ?

Buy a New, S&W gun. Your, ‘Warranty’, is, FREE !
Some little thing is wrong,
instead of you going to a gunsmith, and paying them 100.00 to fix it.
Call, S&W, (if you are the original owner),
they will Send out a, ‘“Free””, 2 day Fed-X label,
and Send it back to you via 2 day Fed-X, “”FREE’”

Which cost’s them 100.00 each way,
PLUS, the 100.00 repair.
But hey, it’s, ‘“””” FREE “””” !
Because EVERYBODY, that buys a S&W gun,
(95% of the, rest, of the people)
PAY, for, YOUR, ‘’’FREE’”” .......

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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Re: How Repulicans fix things.
Reply #28 - 05/07/17 at 18:01:02

Well he didn’t say:
“You have to Pass it, to see what’s in it”.

(Wonder why not? Could it be, it is, ’Transparent’, not “Hidden” ?????)

“ … I hope every GOPr who voted 4 Trumpcare sees a family member get a long term condition, lose insurance, & die,” Eichenwald said in a series of tweets that have since been deleted. …”

(Said: Kurt Eichenwald, a senior writer for Newsweek)

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2017/05/06/newsweek-writer-kurt-eiche...

A-Yep, a LOT, of Tolerance their !

Never mind, digging OUT the Pothole, filling it with hard big rocks,
then putting a layer of, soft, little rock domed over it, to Fix, the Pothole.

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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T And T Garage

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Re: How Repulicans fix things.
Reply #29 - 05/08/17 at 12:34:10

raydawg wrote on 05/05/17 at 16:01:45:

Pay more in a private system, not public, that is the crux of a society who caved into thinking the possibility of a level playing field exsist, it doesn't, the NBA being a perfect example, shouldn't everyone be afforded the same opportunity?
It's not their fault they were born short or lacking in skills.

Anyway, I left out life risk, because none expect to have an accident, but like being a cop, you assume a higher occupational risk, like I ride to reduce my footprint and time management, were it allows me to be more productive.....
Smoking, alcohol, drugs, poor diet, lack of exercise, has no upside and adds to the cost of society.

You CHOOSE to ride a motorcycle. You CHOOSE to put yourself at risk. You can't deny that. In your own system, you'd pay more. Sorry.

I personally think that it's not fair that you should pay more - or that others should pay less.

At some point we will have to say no, we won't subsidize bad behavior and choices because you want it....

Why... why do we have to say no? Who's going to be the judge of what's "good" or "bad" behaviour? What if it's someone who smokes or drinks or rides a motorcycle?... what then?

It's simply not a black and white issue

It's coming, the current thinking is not sustainable AND removes from the truely in need resources they should get, and not lumped together with suspicion and stigma oft associated to "welfare"

Welfare stigma is what you make of it. If you only believe the press and ronnie's tale of a welfare queen - that's on you. I know plenty that have gotten "welfare" and have gone on to better things because of it.

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