SuzukiSavage.com - Would you pay more?

oldNslow

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Re: Would you pay more?
Reply #15 - 04/02/17 at 06:16:56

Quote:

think that the Indian FTR750 will evolve into a street bike. If so it will be a proper "street fighter" type bike with an up-right seating position and feet somewhere between the knee and but.

I'd like to see that happen, but it's going to take some pretty significant re-engineering of that motor. The FTR has no starter, removable external flywheels, a right side shift, four speed gearbox, chain final drive,and no provision for valve adjustment except grinding the inside of the buckets to set the clearance for each valve. And of course it doesn't have to meet the emission and noise standards that a street bike engine needs to meet.

The FTR is a very different motor than the motor in the Scouts. It's not made in the US either.I's made in Switzerland.

I'm not saying that Polaris couldn't do what was needed to make a production version.I'm sure they could. I question whether they would decide that such a bike would be a commercial success though.

I wouldn't be too surprised to see an FTR STYLED Scout sometime down the road. Using the existing Scout motor, Standard riding position. redesigned tins and paint, maybe even a different frame. Something akin to the Harley' XR1200 of a few years ago, which was as close as HD ever came to building a street bike that somewhat resembled the XR750 flat track bike.

Such a bike would still be pretty heavy compared to a real "streetfighter" though. I don't know how much an FTR weighs, but the minimum weight for a Flat Track Twin is 310 pounds. I'm sure Indian got the race bike as close to that as they could. No way that's ever going to happen with a street version.

http://www.cycleworld.com/indian-motorcycle-ftr750-dirt-track-race-engine-exc...

http://www.cycleworld.com/sites/cycleworld.com/files/styles/large_1x_/public/...

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« Last Edit: 04/03/17 at 13:17:37 by verslagen1 »

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raydawg Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 11551 pacific northwest Gender:	Re: Would you pay more? Reply #16 - 04/02/17 at 17:20:45 Well it will be interesting to see if talk of keeping and bringing manufacturing back to the states happens, its products, and cost, etc.
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mpescatori

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Re: Would you pay more?
Reply #17 - 04/03/17 at 08:22:56

oldNslow wrote on 04/02/17 at 06:16:56:

Quote:

I think that the Indian FTR750 will evolve into a street bike. If so it will be a proper "street fighter" type bike with an up-right seating position and feet somewhere between the knee and but.

I'd like to see that happen, but it's going to take some pretty significant re-engineering of that motor. The FTR has no starter, removable external flywheels, a right side shift, four speed gearbox, chain final drive,and no provision for valve adjustment except grinding the inside of the buckets to set the clearance for each valve. And of course it doesn't have to meet the emission and noise standards that a street bike engine needs to meet.

The FTR is a very different motor than the motor in the Scouts. It's not made in the US either.I's made in Switzerland.

I'm not saying that Polaris couldn't do what was needed to make a production version.I'm sure they could. I question whether they would decide that such a bike would be a commercial success though.

I wouldn't be too surprised to see an FTR STYLED Scout sometime down the road. Using the existing Scout motor, Standard riding position. redesigned tins and paint, maybe even a different frame.
Something akin to the Harley' XR1200 of a few years ago, which was as close as HD ever came to building a street bike that somewhat resembled the XR750 flat track bike.

Such a bike would still be pretty heavy compared to a real "streetfighter" though. I don't know how much an FTR weighs, but the minimum weight for a Flat Track Twin is 310 pounds. I'm sure Indian got the race bike as close to that as they could. No way that's ever going to happen with a street version.

http://www.cycleworld.com/indian-motorcycle-ftr750-dirt-track-race-engine-exc...

http://www.cycleworld.com/sites/cycleworld.com/files/styles/large_1x_/public/...

My point exactly.

"An FTR - styled Scout" with a Scout engine, frame, riding position... just "go faster" paint and maybe flat-track handlebars.

That's exactly my point.

Ditch the "Street Rod" concept, keep the engine, create something credible.

No, not this...

THIS !

Create a Sportster-based dual sports !

...or even a Dyna-based sports tourer

(pictured: mid 1980's Moto Guzzi 1000 SPiii and mid 1980's FXRT)

As you can see, HD did have good ideas in the past, but they were "the same old engine and frame" with new bits added.

What I dould like to see is, for example, the 1250cc Street Rod firebreather engine on a specific, "screape your knees to the bone" frame and enough kudos to look at Ducatis, BMWs and Triumph square in the eyes...

Is it really so difficult...?

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Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
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Mikuni BST40, K&N filter, Stage2 cam, Verslagen tensioner, Sportster muff, 120 proof moonshine, Pirelli MT 66 tourers... and a chain conversion too !

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oldNslow

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Re: Would you pay more?
Reply #18 - 04/03/17 at 09:25:30

That Sportster dual sport is pretty neat, but the sportster motor is still way too heavy, no matter what kind of bike you build around it.

I think a better place for HD to start would be with the new motor out of the Street series. Something like this:

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/sites/motorcyclistonline.com/files/styles/l...

Still not a lightweight, but a least headed in the right direction.

I don't have any idea what HDs sales are like in EU countries, but I suspect they are going to have a pretty tough time making the air cooled engines compliant as the EU emission regs get stricter and stricter. I think we are going to see a completely liquid cooled big twin in the near future. Some of the newer big twins are partly liquid cooled now. Another option would be to migrate the VROD engine into the bigger bikes. The evo Sportsters may disappear altogether in those markets, possibly replaced with some version of the Revolution motor from the Street line with more ccs.

Or maybe they won't bother. The last sales figures I saw, from the 2nd quarter last year, said that HD had almost 50% of the new motorcycle market share in the US. Everyone else divvied up the other 50%. The Street models are supposed to be doing pretty well in India also, even though they aren't setting the world on fire here. As long as the US motorcycle emission regs don't change, and I don't think they will as long as Trump is the President, HD might be content to tweak the models they've got to make them EU compliant for as long as they can, and let it go at that.

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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18100 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Would you pay more? Reply #19 - 04/03/17 at 09:35:39 If we are dreaming about our Sportster based fantasies.........
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28886 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Would you pay more? Reply #20 - 04/03/17 at 13:22:47 It's not a question of American or Foreign, it's whether it's in my price range, will do what I want after I get through with it. The more it costs new, the longer I have to wait for it.
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philthymike

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Re: Would you pay more?
Reply #21 - 04/03/17 at 13:40:07

To me American made does not equal good quality. All of the expensive US made appliances in the kitchen are as unreliable and cheaply made as the Chinese ones slowly replacing them (for less money).
Here in Philly our regional rail trains (SEPTA) had a recall of their new fleet of 300 Silverliner V train cars because of faulty suspension parts. This made my commute horrible last summer. Everybody was going off about the fact the trains are Hyundai products and that in itself somehow explained the quality control problem. Turns out the trucks (where the faulty parts were located) were manufactured here in the US using US steel by a US company which then installed them on the Hyundai train cars.
I can think of enough examples similar to this which lead me to say no, I won't pay extra for locally made anything.
We wouldn't have to be creating jobs here if we hadn't off-shored them all to begin with.

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Kris01 Serious Thumper Offline Eat, sleep, RIDE! Posts: 3767 Tennessee Gender:	Re: Would you pay more? Reply #22 - 04/03/17 at 17:47:32 Dave, I think you forgot to include something in your post. Is there a bike in that pic?
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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18100 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Would you pay more? Reply #23 - 04/04/17 at 04:33:21 Kris01 wrote on 04/03/17 at 17:47:32: Dave, I think you forgot to include something in your post. Is there a bike in that pic? If you look long enough....you can find it!
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