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Genuine 400 (Read 348 times)
justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: Genuine 400
Reply #15 - 03/10/17 at 06:12:09
 
European manufacturers found it much too expensive to ship budget-minded lower-end motorcycles overseas.
So you were flooded by the Japanese bikes, because YOU were the only Country they could really export to.

You could expand on why Japan could profitably export to us while others couldn't.
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Genuine 400
Reply #16 - 03/10/17 at 07:51:26
 
What are we objecting to? The fact that in the 1950's American's considered motorcycles from central/eastern European and Italian bike brands obscure?

They were to us. Bikes from the UK were popular, as were HD's.

So the good ones weren't exported (or imported) central/eastern European and Italian bike brands. The fact remains that these companies were not household names in the US.

Thank goodness Honda started sending the US quality small motorcycles, because in the 1960's if you wanted a quality small bike in the United States you had to get them from...there weren't any.
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Re: Genuine 400
Reply #17 - 03/10/17 at 10:27:52
 
I like everything except the chain drive ... (messy and always needing adjusting )
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Ruttly
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Re: Genuine 400
Reply #18 - 03/10/17 at 12:04:57
 
Face it guys the only way to get a bike like that is to built it yourself. Like Ohiomoto is doing "That 70s Show" in RSD! And it will be a 650 that you can get any needed parts quickly ! I'm sure we can buy that tank and seat thru some Asian eBay seller !
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Re: Genuine 400
Reply #19 - 03/10/17 at 15:04:19
 
To mpescatori's  point regarding the history of the US in WWII "were never bombed" I would note that while a technicality, and certainly not to the the extent it occurred in many other countries, the US homeland was in fact "bombed" by Japan.

http://www.historynet.com/japanese-bomb-the-continental-u-s-west-coast.htm
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Re: Genuine 400
Reply #20 - 03/10/17 at 16:50:13
 
Don't forget Ducati. Single cylinder 250, 350, and 450. Just like Coca-Cola, a great product. Just a matter of choosing the right size. Plenty of those in the '60s. Just not enough to satisfy the Baby Boomers coming of age, so the door was wide open for the Japanese.
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« Last Edit: 03/11/17 at 09:32:04 by HAPPYDAN »  
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ohiomoto
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Re: Genuine 400
Reply #21 - 03/11/17 at 08:23:47
 
Ruttly wrote on 03/10/17 at 12:04:57:
Face it guys the only way to get a bike like that is to built it yourself. Like Ohiomoto is doing "That 70s Show" in RSD! And it will be a 650 that you can get any needed parts quickly ! I'm sure we can buy that tank and seat thru some Asian eBay seller !
------------------

I agree except it takes a bit of work.  I think I would try and find a bike with mid controls and go from there.  The problem is there aren't a lot of choices out there.  A GR650 would be good but they are hard to find, have starter problems and it's hard to get parts.  I also like the GN400, but they are hard to find as well.  Or pony up for an SR400 or SR400.  Maybe an XS650 would be the way to go.
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Re: Genuine 400
Reply #22 - 03/11/17 at 09:46:50
 
Ohiomoto , Is what started my whole odyssey of building the tracker , besides the fact I love thumpers , I own six , besides getting lucky and finding a Savage with 809 miles on it for 1500 just 4 miles from here, was the Happy button, that button sparks a huge smile every time I push it ! The button to Freedom , to hours of endless Fun and I love trackers. Great job , it's so low  , do you drag anything in the corners ? The lines , bars to tank to seat to tail light/rear fender are perfect ! I would keep the lower bars and add that front fender , very cool !
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mpescatori
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Re: Genuine 400
Reply #23 - 03/13/17 at 06:15:59
 
DieselBob wrote on 03/10/17 at 15:04:19:
To mpescatori's  point regarding the history of the US in WWII "were never bombed" I would note that while a technicality, and certainly not to the the extent it occurred in many other countries, the US homeland was in fact "bombed" by Japan.

http://www.historynet.com/japanese-bomb-the-continental-u-s-west-coast.htm


I'm not going to allow myself to be tricked into a spitting contest here, may I simply point out that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Ellwood
was a joke compared to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden or even https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_the_Vatican
(Yes, you guys actually bombed the Pope !!!)

Not to mention the destruction of the Benedectine Abbey of Montecassino https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Monte_Cassino or the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_San_Pietro_Infine
which US sources class as a "battle" but which eyewitness testimony class as "target practice on fleeing civilians".

This thread started out to comment a classic-looking, 1970's style chinese import, a comment was made about obscure marketing strategies by (some) European manufacturers and I simply pointed out a few facts.

Nobody seems to understand the first obslacle is LOGISTICS - you need to ship bikes overseas and "what cost ?"
and the second issue to consider is CUSTOMS LEVVIES.

So let's just stick to basics, shall we...
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Genuine 400
Reply #24 - 03/13/17 at 06:59:26
 
Back then we didn't have smart bombs and cruise missiles. Stuff happens. And, people get sued.. a corporation can sue a sovereign nation?

GM sued the United States for bombing one of their German factories during World War II, and in 1967 they collected from the U.S. government $33 million in damages, out of our tax dollars. Ford also made vehicles for Germany, and to a lesser extent so did Chrysler. IBM developed a punch card system for cataloguing the Jews in Germany. Standard Oil attempted to keep the U.S. from obtaining synthetic rubber because of an agreement it had with a German chemical company. In short, American companies, if there really are such a thing, made a lot of money arming Hitler, for ten years before World War II and even during World War II (Trading with the Enemy, Charles Higham, Delacorte Press, 1983).

Stuff to contemplate. Anyone who wants to discuss it, I'll be in the basement, at the Tall Table.
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Genuine 400
Reply #25 - 03/13/17 at 07:35:25
 
mpescatori wrote on 03/13/17 at 06:15:59:
Nobody seems to understand the first obslacle is LOGISTICS - you need to ship bikes overseas and "what cost ?"
and the second issue to consider is CUSTOMS LEVVIES.


Well that's a rather broad statement. Nobody? Really? My company manufactures parts for aircraft that are used all around the world. I believe that I fully understand logistics, customs and more importantly, international marketing.

I'm tempted to tell you to go seek carnal knowledge of yourself, but this isn't the correct forum for such vulgarities.

Instead I will suggest that we keep this thread on topic and continue the discussion of the GC400. There are better places on this forum to discuss politics of the 1940's.
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Re: Genuine 400
Reply #26 - 03/13/17 at 09:59:15
 
Wouldn't it be neat if you could just order the bike you want from the factory? When you buy a new bike, you pay shipping anyway, like around $400. So just order one of those nice "sold in Japan/England/Italy only" models US dealers don't carry. My sister flew to Sweden and picked out her new Volvo. I ordered a custom guitar from Taylor. Rumor has it that a few grey market Honda CB400SS bikes made it to California in 2000-2002. Could it work? Seems like it.
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Kenny G
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Re: Genuine 400
Reply #27 - 03/13/17 at 10:21:55
 
When I purchased my Norton in 1973 I picked it up at the dealer in London and put enough miles on it to ship it home without paying any duty on it. Learning to again ride on the wrong side of the road was a real challenge and I sure 45 years later traffic has not improved.

Kenny G
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mpescatori
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Re: Genuine 400
Reply #28 - 03/14/17 at 07:23:44
 
Grin Seems like somebody did get caught into the spitting contest, and now needs to wipe his face  Grin

Back to bikes...

Many Countries "force" specific mechanical or marketing characteristics, in such a way to control their domestic marlet.

Japan, for example, taxes bikes over 400cc to death, so that they become extraordinarily expensive.
So many 750/900cc models we have are only seen in their 400cc variant in Japan.
See Honda CBX, Honda VFF, Yamahas XJ etc.
Guzzi sold its "V35/V50" air cooled twin as the "V40" for the japanese market only.

Similarly... in Sweden nobody would ever consider buying a car not equipped with an engine heater or a heated windshield; in the Mediterranean area these would be redundant, but you'd want metallic paint to keep the heat down in the hot summers.
In some places you'd welcome warm velvet upholstery, elsewhere it's synthetic fabric or leather because velvet is needlessly hot.

Back to bikes: 400cc twins are excellent commuter/utility bikes, and were considered "quite good" in 19702/1980's Europe.
These days you need a 1000cc behemoth to commute to work - that or a CVT 250cc scooter.

Back in the day, most bikes shared very much the same architecture:
OHV (pushrod) single or twins, air cooled, drum brakes and c comfortable cruising speed anywhere from 50 to 70mph.
They all had kick start and points&condenser ignition.
...And they all leaked oil somehow or other  Wink

Enter Honda.

For whatever engineering strategy, Hondas were OHC twins when their European counterparts were OHV.

For whatever engineering strategy, Hondas were often undersquare and would rev higher than their European OHV counterparts.

For whatever engineering strategy, Hondas were often equipped with a 5 speed gearbox when their European OHV counterparts.

For whatever engineering strategy, Hondas were equipped with CDI ignition when their European counterparts still relied on points&condenser.

The result is that even the "humble" Honda CB 302 looked "more bike" than the average European 350 counterpart

Honda CB 302 Twin ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Honda CB 750 Four
Aermacchi 250 Ala Verde single ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Ducati 750 GT
Matchless G3 350 single ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... BSA Rocket
BMW R27 250 single ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... BMW R75/5

When Honda first came out with its CB 750 Four, it was a revelation.
Or, as others put it, a Revelation, meaning the Apocalypse of Old World motorcycling.

Check out these 750cc motorcycles from 1972 and see for yourselves.
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Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
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Re: Genuine 400
Reply #29 - 03/14/17 at 18:40:25
 
Some of those are beautiful bikes!
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