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raydawg

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E.O.'s
02/10/17 at 04:45:50

I thought Obama used them wrongly, in his second term, and I believe Trump is using them as a detriment to our democracy....
I just don't believe they were ever intended to circumvent our representatives system to govern.
I feel it was to be exercised only when actions were immediate to a threat to our sovereignty.....
Trump is using it as if a dictator or monarch.
I am not arguing the issue, or concern, just the offices actions.
We need to make our elected officials earn their keep by arguing these issues and finding resolutions.....
This crap is what is making folk pizzed!

We need to take away such tools, as examples by the immigration ban, which was thus far decided by a court, and looks to be headed to a higher court, removing our legislative, that's you and me, through who we elect stateside, to find resolution.....

Are we headed to a two branch government, that effectively renders us moot?

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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)

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raydawg

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Re: E.O.'s
Reply #1 - 02/10/17 at 10:14:19

No opines?

I am far away from understanding the depth of legal authority on the matter, and I'll link the current issue, immigration restrictions by E.O.
Which I find lacking to assert the need, not that a president lacks authority, but after reading the court rendering, which skirts the issue of authority....
But Trump executing this order on a "possibility" of terrorist slipping through under the visa, etc, programs, opens an extremely slippery slope.

Anybody?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/10/trump-seizes-on-omission-in-courts...

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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)

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justin_o_guy2

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What happened?

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Re: E.O.'s
Reply #2 - 02/10/17 at 10:30:40

Arizona Tried to Enforce federal law and control their border.
They got stopped, by the president.
Someone REALLY WANTS the violence, chaos and economic hardship these refugees bring.
To point to the current Muslim population who have gradually accumulated over the years and compare them to what is coming is to overlook the differences between the situations that brought them here. I won't waste my time explaining the obvious. The only ones who don't see it are the ones who won't answer my questions. They are not logical or reasonable, reasoning with the unreasonable is like trying to explain to a child who is having a temper tantrum why having a temper tantrum is unproductive. Their mind isn't in a place where they are able to be reasonable.

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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raydawg Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 11551 pacific northwest Gender:	Re: E.O.'s Reply #3 - 02/10/17 at 12:40:36 JOg, I think everyone agrees that a problem exist, but this fix is like drag nets..... in commercial fishing. It trawls the bottom catching and often destroying habitat and "by-catch" that isn't the goal of catching. Maybe we need a fishing pole baited with pork, to catch the real terrorist
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: E.O.'s
Reply #4 - 02/10/17 at 14:06:56

Is everyone aware that this was a temporary ban? One country was permanent. Trump just wants a chance to establish a system to better vet the refugees. It doesn't seem so unreasonable to me, considering the absolute lawlessness we've seen the Europeans subjected to.
And the question remains,
In a nation that has literally Fostered the acceptance of homosexuality, how do we look them in the eye, tell them we want them to have the same security and opportunity to thrive in America, and import people who want to kill them?
Could someone PLEASE answer that?

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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raydawg Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 11551 pacific northwest Gender:	Re: E.O.'s Reply #5 - 02/10/17 at 14:43:24 Jog, I get it, yes it was temp, etc.... I want permanent repair, legislative. The WW2 interment visited on Japanese was just wrong, we can do better
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: E.O.'s
Reply #6 - 02/10/17 at 14:56:08

Considering the rapes, murders, general chaos, why the uproar over a temporary thing? Wouldn't it seem that the left would be first in line to make sure we don't accidentally allow people in who will target the homosexual community?
So far it looks to me like if Trump wants to do something he just needs to say he opposes it and the left will oppose him until he is forced to do as they want. They don't WANT what makes sense. They Want whatever he doesn't.
Not one lefty has answered my question.
Kinda says a lot..

You want a Good answer? Legislation that defines a system to help refugees and protect Americans? Slow down, look at the problem, find a workable solution,
You think the worst of the worst aren't pushing to get in before a sane system can be put together? You don't think real terrorists want to gain entry to America? What would You do if you were a young, healthy, angry man, a refugee MADE a refugee because of the meddling in Your part of the world by a country that Your religion sees as deserving of destruction? Does everyone understand that that there are people in the world who Don't ascribe to the
Live and Let Live ideology of Americans? There are people who don't just go to church on Sunday and sing a few hymns, say a few prayers and listen to a preacher talk about biblical principles. There are people in the world who understand that they can defeat an enemy by Outbreeding them and killing some along the way.
Look at the lawlessness, destruction and chaos in Europe.
Tell me how much different from the animals who have caused that we can expect to come here? You don't think they can be nice long enough to gain access?
Yeah, you win. Unlike the left who will violently oppose what I see as totally ridiculous and dangerous to our society, I will simply sit and watch.. I'm forever hopeful that being proven wrong will eventually cause people to start listening.
I'll wait and watch.
And the people who opposed Trump can pay for the funerals and apologize to the people who suffer.
And you Know it's coming, because you can't answer that question. The left are always happy to explain to anyone who disagrees with them why they are correct.
But none will touch that one,very obvious, question.

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: E.O.'s
Reply #7 - 02/10/17 at 15:39:23

Let's see, who thinks it's possible..

CIA Director: Islamic State Attempting to Infiltrate the West ...
Breitbart › video › 2016/06/16 › cia-dire...
Jun 16, 2016 - Thursday at a hearing on CIA intelligence activities, CIA Director John Brennan said ISIS is attempting infiltrate operatives into the West through “refugee flows, smuggling routes and ...
How ISIS Smuggles Terrorists Among Syrian Refugees - ...
Newsweek › how-isis-smuggles-terrorists...
Apr 27, 2016 - In the Paris attacks, only four of the 198 refugees who arrived on ... Last weekend , The Washington Post reported for the first time on exactly how ISIS was able to infiltrate operatives ...
CIA Director: ISIS is Trying To Infiltrate The U.S. Through ...
NumbersUSA › news › cia-director-isis-tr...
Jun 16, 2016 - While updating the Senate intelligence committee today, CIA Director, John Brennan, said that ISIS is ...
Islamic State reveals it has smuggled THOUSANDS of ...
Daily Express › uk › News › World
Nov 18, 2015 - The Syrian operative claimed more than 4,000 covert ISIS gunmen had been smuggled into western nations ... nations' generosity towards refugees to infiltrate Europe, he said.
Nato commander: Isis 'spreading like cancer' among refugees ...
The Guardian › World › Refugees
Mar 1, 2016 - Philip Breedlove says refugees are 'masking the movement' of terrorists, but human rights groups ...
NATO commander says ISIS spreading like cancer among ...
Washington Times › news › mar › nato-c...
Mar 2, 2016 - The general said Russia is 'weaponizing' the Syrian refugees. Breedlove says at least 1500 ISIS ...
Terrorism Suspects Are Posing as Refugees, Germany Says - The ...
The New York Times › world › europe
Feb 5, 2016 - ... the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL, was using the wave of newcomers to infiltrate Europe.
Extremists have targeted refugee program to enter US, McCaul says ...
The Hill › policy › national-security › 26...
Dec 7, 2015 - He initially claimed that ISIS, in particular, had considered taking advantage

Gee, almost reminds me of an old story,,
Something about hiding fighters inside something that didn't look scary... ohhh, I remember Now...
The Trojan Horse.

Just slip a percentage of warriors into a group of real, decent people, and wait..
Awww, but that can't happen, can it?

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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oldNslow

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Re: E.O.'s
Reply #8 - 02/10/17 at 17:50:43

JOG wrote:
Quote:

I'll wait and watch.
And the people who opposed Trump can pay for the funerals and apologize to the people who suffer.

Even some of the lefties understand whats coming. Some welcome it. Some just don't care, as long as they don't have to take the blame. A few however are already having second thoughts.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/02/10/ninth-circuit-court-now-demands-
it-be-protected-from-itself/#more-128440

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: E.O.'s
Reply #9 - 02/10/17 at 19:02:35

Yeah, I heard about that.
I also heard they didn't even mention the part of the law Trump quoted as his authority.
Obama stopped Arizona from enforcing immigration laws,and the left cry incessantly about how it's the Eeeevil bubs who want them in for cheap labor.
I guess that's their admission that the more intelligent and better educated dems don't own businesses.

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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oldNslow Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 2679 Rochester, NY Gender:	Re: E.O.'s Reply #10 - 02/10/17 at 19:16:24 Quote: I also heard they didn't even mention the part of the law Trump quoted as his authority. Exactly. Which makes their decision nothing but politically motivated nonsense. But, it's the 9th circuit. so no one should be surprised by that. http://joshblackman.com/blog/2017/02/10/the-failure-of-the-9th-circuit-to-dis...
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Steve H

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Re: E.O.'s
Reply #11 - 02/17/17 at 05:55:42

Raydawg...I am in line with your thinking that the EO's are an end-run around the legislative system.

Technically, the "Executive Order" is an order for the executive branch of government and has no legal authority at all. All the president has direct control over is the executive branch.

I completely agree that our elected representatives in both houses should be debating and examining the issues and deciding what to do about them instead of waiting for a unilateral decree from the Pres. that really is worth no more than the paper upon which it is written but is treated like God spoke.

Our reps should be up in arms about all the executive orders bypassing their constitutional authority to make laws. Instead, they are all (for the most part) sitting there thinking 'I'm glad it wasn't me that had to do that...it's an election killer' Now where's that lobbyist, it's lunch time and I could use a few drinks.

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oldNslow

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Re: E.O.'s
Reply #12 - 02/17/17 at 07:23:02

Steve H,

Take a look at the link I posted. If I'm understanding it correctly, the statutory authority for Trumps immigration EO did come from congress. He his citing his legal authority as being based on a law that is on the books, and legal precedent. At least in this guy Blackman's opinion.

http://joshblackman.com/blog/2017/02/10/the-failure-of-the-9th-circuit-to-dis...

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Steve H Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1223 Spartanburg, SC Gender:	Re: E.O.'s Reply #13 - 02/19/17 at 09:53:04 I stand corrected. Congress did cede its authority to regulate immigration to the President. So, where's the problem? He did what he is entitled to do. He is attempting to protect the country from undesirables entering.
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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28399 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: E.O.'s Reply #14 - 02/19/17 at 10:08:42 The problem is it's unconstitutional... It has been found by the courts to be a religious litmus... We have freedom of religion... You'd think the Right would know that, what with all their Constitution thumping.
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