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Changing springs on Progressive 444 shocks (Read 412 times)
Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Changing springs on Progressive 444 shocks
Reply #30 - 01/26/17 at 09:38:06
 
Ruttly wrote on 01/26/17 at 06:43:26:
It must be the cheap scale I'm using , different weight every time I weigh it. Anyways about 310 lbs , front 148 , rear 162 lbs . Gonna call Progressive today and find out what up !


Your numbers are very close to mine. I also have the figures for Dave's cafe racer and while the weight is slightly higher, the weight distribution is the same between all three of our bikes ~ 47:53 f:r
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Re: Changing springs on Progressive 444 shocks
Reply #31 - 01/26/17 at 10:18:06
 
I cut as much weight as I could but had to put a chain tensioner on it and a bigger horn/loud horn and I think that big brake weighs more than stocker !
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Ruttly
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Re: Changing springs on Progressive 444 shocks
Reply #32 - 01/26/17 at 12:02:40
 
Is 47/53 good ? What is best 50/50 ?
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Changing springs on Progressive 444 shocks
Reply #33 - 01/26/17 at 13:17:55
 
Ruttly wrote on 01/26/17 at 12:02:40:
Is 47/53 good ? What is best 50/50 ?


I don't think there is a "good" value or specific target. Most modern sport bikes are biased so that 51-53% of the weight is on the front axle. With a rider on board it even-out to 50:50. With the forward lean required to reach my clip-ons, I'm assuming that the weight distribution is somewhere around 50:50.
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Re: Changing springs on Progressive 444 shocks
Reply #34 - 01/26/17 at 19:50:54
 
I would guess those numbers are all ok probably till you hit 40/60 or 60/40 and even then would be ok for an average rider who obeys the laws and/or speed limit !
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Ruttly
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Re: Changing springs on Progressive 444 shocks
Reply #35 - 01/26/17 at 20:22:15
 
Called Progressive today , my shocks were made for large Honda & large Kawasaki not a sportster. Only one other spring option that will fit them , a 75/125 . When I asked if they would change springs for me he said no they would only install springs that the shock comes with but he would sell me the other springs. And then explained that there are many reasons they are so stiff like they are on the Wrong bike,weight,shock angles , length of swingarm , a very informative phone call. Springs 26 each + shipping , spring compressor 37 + shipping , is it worth it ?
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Changing springs on Progressive 444 shocks
Reply #36 - 01/27/17 at 05:27:00
 
Ruttly wrote on 01/26/17 at 20:22:15:
Springs 26 each + shipping , spring compressor 37 + shipping , is it worth it ?


It depends. Like I explained earlier, those shock are valved (dampened) for forces that you and your bike will not generate, or generate at the wrong time or wrong part of the stroke. As a result, the ride will always be busy and firm...perhaps painfully firm. Given that Progressive wont even respring the shocks for you, I doubt that they will revalve them. If you can find someone to revalve them - usually a $150+ charge - it could be worth it. The springs will cost you (with the tool and shipping) $100 and the revalving will cost you $150+...add that to what you paid for the shocks and ask yourself if its worth it.

If you can't get the shocks revalved/rebuilt, then no, its not worth it. If you can get the shocks revalved, then don't buy the spring compressor because whomever rebuilds the shocks can install the new springs.

Dave, how much did you pay for your gas emulsion shocks? I'm sure it was less then $200.
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Re: Changing springs on Progressive 444 shocks
Reply #37 - 01/27/17 at 06:14:13
 
I paid $ 69.29 with shipping from China.....the price seems to have gone up a bit on them.  Current prices are in the $ 79.99 to $ 89,99 range.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/112188166961?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170901783630?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=...

I had the shocks mailed directly to Chris Livengood at CL MotoTech to get them set up properly, as the "rumor" is the shocks are made pretty well - but are not filled with oil or charged consistently (and he has even found some where the charging passages were not drilled).  The cost to rebuild them was $ 95, and I also had them install the spherical ball ends at a cost of $ 105.  I noticed that on my Cafe' bike the rear axle is resistant to any "initial" movement, and the shocks did not want to move initially - Chris agreed the spherical ends help to allow the shocks to respond as the friction on the ends is reduced.  Shipping to me was $15.....so in total I have $ 284.29 invested.

I have not yet got them mounted on the bike or ridden on them.......spring will be here soon and I will be able to try them out.

It could be that the shocks as delivered from the factory might be OK....if you are lucky and get a good pair.  You could also not spend the money on the spherical ball ends - I did as I noticed how much smoother the rear of my other bikes are...they are both monoshock bikes with bearings in the linkage.

As I stated previously in this thread.....lighter springs helped - but did not make the ride good - the damping is most likely still too stiff for my Cafe' bike.

Dave wrote on 01/23/17 at 05:22:56:
According to Gary_in_NJ.....the damping in the Progressive shocks might be too stiff for our light bike.  Changing to lighter springs might not change the ride much.

I did the same thing on my Progressive 412 shocks that are for a Sportster......and I went to the lightest spring they make.  The ride is a little better - but certainly not cushy.
 
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Re: Changing springs on Progressive 444 shocks
Reply #38 - 01/27/17 at 06:55:06
 
I'm not looking for a cushy ride,just maybe a little more sag and with the preload set on light I have no adjustment left. I think I will try it and see.
Besides a that I always wanted that spring compressor !
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Re: Changing springs on Progressive 444 shocks
Reply #39 - 01/27/17 at 07:01:51
 
Can you explain what ratings on the springs mean as in 90/130  75/125
Please and a upfront Tanx !
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Re: Changing springs on Progressive 444 shocks
Reply #40 - 01/27/17 at 07:37:04
 
This is from the Progressive web page:

The spring is (for the most part) wound steel and is defined by its rate. Rate is a measurement of the force required to compress the spring and is expressed in lbs per inch. For instance a spring with a 100 lbs/inch rate will require 100 lbs to compress it one inch. Each subsequent inch of compression would require an additional 100lbs of force. This is referred to as a straight or linear rate spring. The alternative, is a progressive rate spring which allows a single spring to essentially exhibit multiple rates. By utilizing varied spacing spring coils, the initial rate may be 60lbs/inch, requiring 60 lbs of force to compress it one inch. Then each subsequent inch of movement would require progressively more than 60lbs of force such as 75lbs more for the second inch, 100lbs more for the third inch etc, as shown in the example. Progressive-rate springs become stiffer quicker as they are compressed. The advantage is a spring that is supple enough to soak up small bumps, yet firm enough to handle a big hit.

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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Changing springs on Progressive 444 shocks
Reply #41 - 01/27/17 at 07:53:56
 
The advantage is a spring that is supple enough to soak up small bumps, yet firm enough to handle a big hit.

That deodorant commercial just popped into my head..

Strong enough for a man
But made for a woman..

So, the Wire itself is the same diameter and rigidity throughout the spring, it's just coil spacing that changes the rate? That would change the angle of the pressure applied, I can see how that would work.
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Changing springs on Progressive 444 shocks
Reply #42 - 01/27/17 at 08:24:47
 
Dave (with Progressive's help) nailed it. On a linked suspension (like a modern mono-shock) a progressive spring isn't necessary because the linkage provides the variable rate. On a direct suspension like is used on the LS650 (and KTM PDS system) a progressively wound spring is used for the purposes noted above; i.e. as the suspension compresses the resistance from the spring increases.

I have an 80/100 rate spring on my cafe racer and it's a bit over sprung, but within a very usable range. Unless you weigh 230-250 pounds (and I know you don't) that 75/125 is going to be a bit too firm over surfaces that require long suspension travel. But given that your damping valving is WAY TOO FIRM, you're gonna get a jack-hammer ride from those shocks.

How much did you pay for your 444's and how much could you get for them. Give this some consideration before you throw $100 at shocks that you may not like.
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Ruttly
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Re: Changing springs on Progressive 444 shocks
Reply #43 - 01/27/17 at 12:00:31
 
Paid 450 they list for 652 , Ryca was having trouble getting shocks from Progressive at that time , they most likely sent them any 13" shock they had in stock. Maybe I will just add extra padding when I have the seat made , cause it handles really good. I'm still buying the tool found it for 32 + shipping! I'll just wait on the springs !
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Kenny G
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Re: Changing springs on Progressive 444 shocks
Reply #44 - 01/27/17 at 13:05:36
 
I would like to replace the shocks on my 2013 S40 with the 11" Progressive  shocks.

I weigh 170LB, how do I determine what I need? Should I just call Progressive and tell them what the bike is and how much I weigh?

How much should I expect to pay?

Kenny G
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