SuzukiSavage.com - Do planets die?

Paraquat Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 2206	Re: Do planets die? Reply #30 - 01/20/17 at 11:11:10 WebsterMark wrote on 01/20/17 at 09:40:46: Thermodynamics 1) you can't win the game 2) you can't tie the game 3) you can't quit the game If you're ever in New England, we should get a beer or a coffee. --Steve
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Joer0952

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Re: Do planets die?
Reply #31 - 01/20/17 at 11:13:33

raydawg wrote on 01/20/17 at 10:11:23:

Are humans flawed?
I would say yes.
I will base this on a single fact, or observation..,.
Our desire to survive.
It is a basic instinct at our very core. So deeply ingrained it is of subconscious nature.

Think of nature, where many species succumb to death to assure their kind survive, the salmon being a great example.

I think this instinct drives much political, and social agendas, and policies.
Which, has evolved to a current mindset, and promotion, that it sets up that instinct to combat perceived threats to all of our own belief structure.
In essence, it is a revolving problem predicated on who is holding sway.

However, I believe we do have the capacity to overcome this when we put others, first.
But that's a beech, for sure, as exampled by the vitriol we see folks hurling at each other.
Yes, I am part of that problem too, arg Embarrassed

all of this is true, but I was just saying that these tendencies would need to be overcome if the species is to survive b/c with advancing technology and the increasing ease at which killing is possible that if we don't then we will not last to be advanced enough to be able to have inter solar system travel. I wasn't giving an opinion on whether we will or will not do so I was giving an opinion on the consequences.

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Re: Do planets die?
Reply #32 - 01/20/17 at 11:17:28

WebsterMark wrote on 01/20/17 at 10:00:00:

Read up on Fermi Paradox

I tend to lean this way. If there is life elsewhere, we'll never, ever know about it.

if you mean we like actually us then definitely, if you mean we like the human species I would say most likely true, but if we survive long enough it is certainly possible. I mean if you could dig up george washington and tell him there was men on the moon he wouldn't believe it but it happened.

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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 14445 Gender:	Re: Do planets die? Reply #33 - 01/20/17 at 15:27:42 but one point of the Fermi Paradox is that it wouldn't matter how long you waited, they would never come. If Washington lived long enough, he'd come to believe we could go to the moon.
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T And T Garage Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 9839	Re: Do planets die? Reply #34 - 01/20/17 at 18:46:12
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WebsterMark

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Re: Do planets die?
Reply #35 - 01/21/17 at 06:36:43

If there is no supreme being and life evolves on it's own, why would any other civilization be dramatically different from ours? Is the history of the various cultures and nations on earth similar?

The USA was dramatically different and shaped the world for the past 100 years or so in a way unheard of before but that coincided with industrial revolution and now the digital age. If we had not established the government we have and we're fortunate enough to have the right people in the right place, would the world be where it is now but with perhaps British dominance?

But I digress. Back to main point, why do we assume other intelligent life is different from us?

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Re: Do planets die?
Reply #36 - 01/21/17 at 08:02:35

WebsterMark wrote on 01/21/17 at 06:36:43:

If there is no supreme being and life evolves on it's own, why would any other civilization be dramatically different from ours? Is the history of the various cultures and nations on earth similar?

But I digress. Back to main point, why do we assume other intelligent life is different from us?

Cool question to ponder. Theories vary - Had there not been an extinction event sometime around the Cretaceous, then it's possible "we'd" be more like lizards than human - evolution could have stopped with a later extinction event as well - after the mammals' brains grew. This could have led to who knows what kind of intelligence - insects perhaps. Further, even the moon has had an effect on how we evolved - with no tides, there may have been a completely different form of intelligent life. "We" may not have made it out of the water - imagine a planet who's dominant species explores the surface in protective suits!

But it's also theorized that because we evolved the way we did, there's no reason that the same thing couldn't on another planet like ours. Given the Drake equation, in our galaxy alone there could be millions of planets in the "Goldielocks zone".

Yeah - a very cool question to think about.

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Re: Do planets die?
Reply #37 - 01/21/17 at 08:06:37

But I digress. Back to main point, why do we assume other intelligent life is different from us?

Well Webby, ain't that the crux of the problem....

We assign intelligence, as a positive characteristic, based on superiority.
This, I believe, is the biggest factor that drives the leftist.
They hold that view of themselves.
Listen to Obama's assessment of his term(s).
He writes (it as) success, and assigns himself credit, when the facts do not bear witness to it.
A successful term, does NOT lose senate/house seats, governorship's, to historical proportions.

But they view these results, blame them, basically, on the deplorable.
That we are too stupid of intelligence, to grasp whats best for us.

Forget the fact Trump just told the people he is returning Washington back to its rightful owners....
They never see themselves as servants, tho they award themselves with such honors.

They are elitist, aristocrats, and we are merely ignorant peasants, that do not appreciate THEIR fact, that they "run the village," serving for us.

Like a parent, who tells a sick child, "I know the medicine taste horrible, but you must take it to get better."
This is their justification.

However, its built upon a lie.
A lie they tell themselves.
For a loving, caring parent would never get angry to the point of demonstrating it through destructive actions, name calling, or belittle the child, because the medicine doesn't seem to work!

So, they have used media, academia, political, and social engineering, to indoctrinate, and a pseudo intelligence, as a tool to strike its opposition, into submission, from a position of superiority.

Except, it doesn't work......

I will offer this observation as to why.
Using "intelligence" under its current meaning/understanding is moot.
For how can its meaning be extended to include all understandings?

Take a primitive living in the jungle, as an example.
Not schooled, or educated, in the system that allows us to assign intelligence as a reward for regurgitation, they are about as ignorant as any form of life on this planet.
Put a Harvard Professor of Political Science into his enviroment......

Now who is ignorant?

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Re: Do planets die?
Reply #38 - 01/21/17 at 09:34:22

I get enough politics on here. I'm steering clear of that on this topic.

From a Biblical point of view, mankind could never destroy the planet on his own. There is a destiny that awaits creation and that would interfere so while damage might be widespread, man will always inhabit earth until the mysterious pre-appointed time.

As the good book says: Creation itself yearns to be released from it's bondage to decay.

That's a clear reference to the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Again, from a Biblical point of view, there was no 2nd law until the fall of man. There could have been millions of years between the end of Genesis chap 2 and the beginning of chap 3. At some point however, decay or entropy was introduced to the physical laws and 'the creation' began it's decay in the same manner mankind did. Now I realize atheist etc will chuckle at this concept, but no more than I chuckle at their view of completely randomness.

But without intercession, the universe is doomed to death by heat loss.

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Re: Do planets die?
Reply #39 - 01/21/17 at 10:02:36

WebsterMark wrote on 01/21/17 at 09:34:22:

I get enough politics on here. I'm steering clear of that on this topic.

From a Biblical point of view, mankind could never destroy the planet on his own. There is a destiny that awaits creation and that would interfere so while damage might be widespread, man will always inhabit earth until the mysterious pre-appointed time.

As the good book says: Creation itself yearns to be released from it's bondage to decay.

That's a clear reference to the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Again, from a Biblical point of view, there was no 2nd law until the fall of man. There could have been millions of years between the end of Genesis chap 2 and the beginning of chap 3. At some point however, decay or entropy was introduced to the physical laws and 'the creation' began it's decay in the same manner mankind did. Now I realize atheist etc will chuckle at this concept, but no more than I chuckle at their view of completely randomness.

But without intercession, the universe is doomed to death by heat loss.

Web, you will need to dialog to witness.
Jesus told us to go and become Roman's (or whoever) so they might understand.
Jesus has the ability to withstand my convoluted way in witnessing, and I can never destroy him, only myself.
Funny, I get more confrontation about my belief in God, from other believers, than I do from Botheads......

Go figger Cheesy

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Re: Do planets die?
Reply #40 - 01/21/17 at 12:18:49

WebsterMark wrote on 01/21/17 at 06:36:43:

If there is no supreme being and life evolves on it's own, why would any other civilization be dramatically different from ours? Is the history of the various cultures and nations on earth similar?

The USA was dramatically different and shaped the world for the past 100 years or so in a way unheard of before but that coincided with industrial revolution and now the digital age. If we had not established the government we have and we're fortunate enough to have the right people in the right place, would the world be where it is now but with perhaps British dominance?

But I digress. Back to main point, why do we assume other intelligent life is different from us?

Well because environmental pressures cause evolutionary change, its called natural selection. Whether you believe that change occurs naturally or at the hand of God is irrelevant. Another civilization would most likely have different environmental pressures that would require different adaptation. A very simply example is if you had white and brown rabbits in Alaska the white rabbits would be favored because the white fur gives them camouflage in the snow and would be less likely to be prey than the brown rabbits. The opposite is true if those rabbits were in California. So different environments apply different environments pressures.

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Re: Do planets die?
Reply #41 - 01/21/17 at 12:46:38

Joer0952 wrote on 01/21/17 at 12:18:49:

WebsterMark wrote on 01/21/17 at 06:36:43:

If there is no supreme being and life evolves on it's own, why would any other civilization be dramatically different from ours? Is the history of the various cultures and nations on earth similar?

The USA was dramatically different and shaped the world for the past 100 years or so in a way unheard of before but that coincided with industrial revolution and now the digital age. If we had not established the government we have and we're fortunate enough to have the right people in the right place, would the world be where it is now but with perhaps British dominance?

But I digress. Back to main point, why do we assume other intelligent life is different from us?

Well because environmental pressures cause evolutionary change, its called natural selection. Whether you believe that change occurs naturally or at the hand of God is irrelevant. Another civilization would most likely have different environmental pressures that would require different adaptation. A very simply example is if you had white and brown rabbits in Alaska the white rabbits would be favored because the white fur gives them camouflage in the snow and would be less likely to be prey than the brown rabbits. The opposite is true if those rabbits were in California. So different environments apply different environments pressures.

So Joer.....
If I understand you correct, this environmental pressure causes changes...

Is this why the libs are askew now, having to act with violence, diatribe, and intolerance?

Because they no longer can hide their hypocrisy, and that pressure is getting to them ? Grin

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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)

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