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How bad is my petcock problem? (Read 414 times)
IslandRoad
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Re: How bad is my petcock problem?
Reply #15 - 01/17/17 at 10:14:25
 
I was actually wondering if I should remove another washer. I figured I'd hold off any more tweaking until I replace the petcock. I should be able to do that on Friday.

My spacer is currently at 50%. Another washer will make it 25%. I've read on here that some guys have had flooding issues with the carb when they removed the spacer altogether, so I'm a little wary of going to low.

What size spacer are you running?


stewmills wrote on 01/17/17 at 06:53:15:
After you resolve the petcock issue, if you still have the surging you need to consider adjusting the white spacer a bit more. I have a similar set-up and I had that ever so slight surging at 1/8 throttle and after I took another hit at the spacer it seems to have resolved my surging.

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Papa Bear
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Re: How bad is my petcock problem?
Reply #16 - 01/17/17 at 11:32:59
 
Does anyone have experience with this petcock?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N3MYYUR?tag=wisdomberry-com-20
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verslagen1
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Re: How bad is my petcock problem?
Reply #17 - 01/17/17 at 12:06:18
 
Bear, you don't know who made that petcock... they probably don't know either.

The key question to ask is, does it have a 5/16" [8mm] outlet?
1/4" [6mm] is no good.  it will vapor lock on you.
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Dave
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Re: How bad is my petcock problem?
Reply #18 - 01/17/17 at 12:26:37
 
Papa Bear wrote on 01/17/17 at 11:32:59:
Does anyone have experience with this petcock?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N3MYYUR?tag=wisdomberry-com-20


I know that petcock won't work if the one in the photo is the one they are selling.  It has the short stalk, and the tank seem extends too low for it to work on the Savage fuel tank.

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norm92de
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Re: How bad is my petcock problem?
Reply #19 - 01/17/17 at 12:29:13
 
Bear,
Get the genuine Yamaha petcock as recommended by the Gurus on this site. If you get the wrong one you will bitterly regret it and have to pay twice. I fitted the recommended Yamaha item it fits and works perfectly. Smiley
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Dave
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Re: How bad is my petcock problem?
Reply #20 - 01/17/17 at 12:55:25
 
The stock vacuum petcock can be problematic, and it has a list price of $ 100.64 from Suzuki.

We have discovered a manual petcock from the Yamaha Raptor 660 that is reliable, and 1/3rd the price.....and still folks want to buy the Chines copy.

Get the official Yamaha 3 5LP-24500-01.00.

http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2004-yamaha-raptor-660r-limited-edition-b...

LkAAOSwmfhX4r09&vxp=mtr" target="_blank">http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-YAMAHA-RAPTOR-660-YFM-660R-OEM-FUEL-VALVE-SHUTOFF-PETCOCK-5LP-24500-01-00-/272523962201?hash=item3f73b1a759:gCheesyLkAAOSwmfhX4r09&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-OEM-FUEL-PETCOCK-RAPTOR-2001-2005-YFM660R-01-0...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Factory-Yamaha-Petcock-Fuel-Gas-Valve-01-05-YFM66...

If you don't see the official Yamaha Part number and the white box.....you can't be sure it is not a Chinese copy.
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stewmills
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Re: How bad is my petcock problem?
Reply #21 - 01/17/17 at 14:44:52
 
IslandRoad, I think we would all agree to troubleshoot the petcock first before digging into the carb for more adjustments. Fix and test one thing at a time so you know what does and does not solve problems...or what made them worse so you can undo it!

Per your needle question, mine is a little tricky. I had a guy do the original rejetting for me on my bike when I first got it in 2012 (was my first bike and too scared to touch it at the time).  We used a Dynojet kit and instead of keeping the original needle, the needle with the adjustable circlip was used.  You will see in the attached pic that my clip is on the 3rd rung from the bottom, and what I adjusted this weekend was move it down to the 2nd rung, thus raising the needle. Also, for what it's worth my spacer was previously shaved a bit and it's thickness as seen in this image is 1.82mm.

There is probably no way to translate my set-up to a standard needle without the adjustable needle, but I didn't want to not respond to your question.
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Re: How bad is my petcock problem?
Reply #22 - 01/17/17 at 19:49:51
 
I believe if your problem is at 1/8 throttle you need to go to a 55 idle jet as your not really using the needle jet /jet needle until you reach 1/4 to3/4 throttle opening. I think if your at a half spacer and a 152.5 main and go any higher you'll be running rich but only between 1/4 and3/4 and will still have a problem at1/8 throttle. A 55 jet is not uncommon at sea level.A 155 main or 1/4 spacer on a stock motor is very uncommon.After firing is a sign of a lean idle circuit.
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IslandRoad
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Re: How bad is my petcock problem?
Reply #23 - 01/17/17 at 23:06:18
 
Thanks for the info. That's really interesting.  My needle only had 3 notches. Centre notch is stock them a quarter step each way.

I started trying to translate your adjustments while reading ... soon gave up on that  Cool


stewmills wrote on 01/17/17 at 14:44:52:
IslandRoad, I think we would all agree to troubleshoot the petcock first before digging into the carb for more adjustments. Fix and test one thing at a time so you know what does and does not solve problems...or what made them worse so you can undo it!

Per your needle question, mine is a little tricky. I had a guy do the original rejetting for me on my bike when I first got it in 2012 (was my first bike and too scared to touch it at the time).  We used a Dynojet kit and instead of keeping the original needle, the needle with the adjustable circlip was used.  You will see in the attached pic that my clip is on the 3rd rung from the bottom, and what I adjusted this weekend was move it down to the 2nd rung, thus raising the needle. Also, for what it's worth my spacer was previously shaved a bit and it's thickness as seen in this image is 1.82mm.

There is probably no way to translate my set-up to a standard needle without the adjustable needle, but I didn't want to not respond to your question.

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IslandRoad
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Re: How bad is my petcock problem?
Reply #24 - 01/17/17 at 23:12:11
 
Thanks for the feedback, that's exactly what I was looking for at this stage. The spacer mod and the main jet seem to me to be right, going off my ride-tests.

The stock pilot jet gets the bike idling well at 1 3/4 turns, which I read is optimal. I was wondering whether to reduce the spacer more or up the pilot jet.

Once the petock is done, I'll go to a 55 pilot jet and see how she goes . That's the easier adjustment too Smiley

batman wrote on 01/17/17 at 19:49:51:
I believe if your problem is at 1/8 throttle you need to go to a 55 idle jet as your not really using the needle jet /jet needle until you reach 1/4 to3/4 throttle opening. I think if your at a half spacer and a 152.5 main and go any higher you'll be running rich but only between 1/4 and3/4 and will still have a problem at1/8 throttle. A 55 jet is not uncommon at sea level.A 155 main or 1/4 spacer on a stock motor is very uncommon.After firing is a sign of a lean idle circuit.

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Dave
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Re: How bad is my petcock problem?
Reply #25 - 01/18/17 at 03:04:29
 
If you have fuel in the oil...or you smell fuel when your bike is parked - it is definitely time to check your petcock.  If the diaphragm has gone bad and is leaking fuel down the vacuum line - the fuel will flow toward whichever end is down hill when the bike is parked.  The fuel can flow toward the engine and get into the oil, or it can flow toward the air box (have you checked to see if there is fuel in the airbox?).


batman wrote on 01/17/17 at 19:49:51:
I believe if your problem is at 1/8 throttle you need to go to a 55 idle jet as your not really using the needle jet /jet needle until you reach 1/4 to3/4 throttle opening. I think if your at a half spacer and a 152.5 main and go any higher you'll be running rich but only between 1/4 and3/4 and will still have a problem at1/8 throttle. A 55 jet is not uncommon at sea level.A 155 main or 1/4 spacer on a stock motor is very uncommon.After firing is a sign of a lean idle circuit.


My experience with the jetting on the Savage doesn't agree with that.....at least it seems that on the Savage the slide needle begins to work as soon as you start to apply throttle, and it even seems to me that when you have the idle adjusted to 1,100 rpm you may be beginning to pull fuel out of the jet needle (as the fuel mixture screw does not make noticeable changes when the idle speed is set high while trying to adjust the mixture).  For a stock air cleaner (or K&N drop in), and a stock muffler or DYNA - a 55 pilot jet is most likely too big.  You need to find the idle jet that provides the smoothest running when the screw is out 1.5 - 2.5 turns - then make the other adjustments using the slide needle spacer or main jet....if the 52.5 requires you to open the idle mixture screw more than 2.5 turns.....then maybe a 55 pilot jet is appropriate.  I live at 500' above sea level, and the bikes seem to like a #50 or #52.5 at this elevation.  (It also makes a difference what kind of fuel you have - fuels with ethanol require larger jets than pure gasoline).

This chart shows where the jets/slide/needle have an effect, and I believe that on the Savage and the stock carb it comes with the range of the idle fuel jet does not extend up as far as the chart indicates.  Notice how much influence the clip position has at 1/8th throttle in the chart - while the pilot jet influence is dropping.  (The chart calls it the air screw slow jet - however on our carb it is a fuel screw jet).

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« Last Edit: 01/18/17 at 04:45:10 by Dave »  

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Ruttly
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Re: How bad is my petcock problem?
Reply #26 - 01/18/17 at 05:40:30
 
Dave , On that chart , what does "straight dia" indicate ?
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Dave
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Re: How bad is my petcock problem?
Reply #27 - 01/18/17 at 06:05:40
 
Ruttly wrote on 01/18/17 at 05:40:30:
Dave , On that chart , what does "straight dia" indicate ?



From what I can tell.....that is the diameter of the jet needle.  The top 3 shaded areas on the chart are all related to the jet needle.

The I.M.S is the Idle Mixture Screw, and you can see that it has almost no effect on anything but the mixture at idle speed.  This is partly because on the stock carb, the fuel/air mix from the pilot jet goes into 2 separate channels after it leaves the pilot jet - 1 channel goes directly to a port in the side of the carb on the engine side of the throttle plate, the other channel passes through the idle mixture screw before it goes to a separate port on the engine side of the throttle plate.  This is why the engine can still run when your pilot jet is too big and you turn the fuel mixture screw all the way in.....the other port is flowing enough fuel to permit the engine to run even though no fuel is passing through the mixture screw port.  In the attached image you can see the 2 paths for the idle fuel flow.




Here is a link to where that chart came from - it if for Keihin carbs.  Although it is useful, it may not be entirely accurate for our carb.  The factory has already done the work to get the slide cutaway and other factors very close - and we can do the fine tuning to correct the lean (EPA induced) condition by changing the pilot jet, clip position and main jet size.

http://www.keihin-na.com/assets/1/7/slide_valve.pdf


And if you are really "anal" about this stuff...you can see in the above CV carb image why it doesn't make any difference if you use a pilot jet with holes in the sides of the jet.....or no holes.  The pilot jet screws into a hole that has no openings on the side, so nothing can flow through those holes.

In the Mikuni Round Slide carb, the mixture screw is an "air screw", and it changes the idle mixture by changing how much air is allowed to pass through those holes in the side of the pilot jet.  You can change the mixture characteristics by the size and number of holes in the side of the pilot jet.  (The diagram is a bit hard to understand clearly - but there is an air passage that goes past the air screw and then into the side of the pilot jet.




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Ruttly
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Re: How bad is my petcock problem?
Reply #28 - 01/18/17 at 10:16:59
 
The Sudco manual shows some very good breakdowns of the round slide ,
Thanks Dave
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Papa Bear
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Re: How bad is my petcock problem?
Reply #29 - 01/18/17 at 10:37:25
 
Dave wrote on 01/17/17 at 12:26:37:
I know that petcock won't work if the one in the photo is the one they are selling.  It has the short stalk, and the tank seem extends too low for it to work on the Savage fuel tank.



Thanks for that Dave  Wink
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