SuzukiSavage.com - Help after a fall

Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18101 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Help after a fall Reply #30 - 01/04/17 at 18:09:20 All those white lines across the belt indicate cracks in the outer cover, which can be caused by running your belt too tight.
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Help after a fall
Reply #31 - 01/04/17 at 19:28:04

JDNewYork wrote on 01/03/17 at 17:26:40:

Hey all, have been riding 3 months now (as some of you know) and had my first accident today and laid my '99 down.

Was a kind of perfect storm of issues...was driving in the city and got caught in a storm shower with no option to pull over and then a yellow taxi cut me up turning left from the far right lane. the combination of slippery road and an obstacle appearing in front of me was just too much...I squeezed the brakes to avoid hitting the cab and my old girl simply skidded, bucked and slid to a halt....the cab carried on driving.

Amazingly my bike seems to have survived without a scratch, I think to be honest it was me that took most of the impact, luckily we were only traveling really slow (approx 10-15mph) and by the time the bike fell sideways we were almost at a complete stop and the bike landed on top of me!

I am giving you this whole story as maybe it will aid if you do have a tip for the only 'issue' I did find. Once I got back home (the bike started right back up after pulling her to her wheels) when I was parking I noticed a little click click click noise. At first I thought maybe a fender had taken a bump and was lightly touching a tire...no, I pushed and pulled the bike around trying to find the source and i 'think' its coming from the belt.

I have inspected the belt thoroughly as I can (without removing it) and I can't see any issue with it but you can feel a slight vibration run through it as you push the bike at walking speed with a really quiet click, click, click kinda sound.

Looking for any ideas what it could be? Could it have been caused by the mild impact? Could it have been caused by running in super wet weather and be nothing to do with laying the bike down? Is it something completely different. Any help or advice would be hugely appreciated....everything seems to be running no worse than pre-accident....just wanna know I am not ignoring something that could be a bigger issue.

Undecided

The belt will, for some reason, be noisier wet than dry.
You discovered the click after the wet fall. You're naturally focused on
Is there damage from the fall
Even though You were the landing pad for the bike.
The belt tension comes to mind. Alignment is a controversial subject. Under acceleration, the rear pulley is put under loads I couldn't begin to calculate. Expecting it to stay perfectly parallel to the center line of the rim seems a bit starry eyed. It's not Just a machine , it's an Inexpensive and old design. It ain't Perfikk.
If you pull the front pulley cover and put a light cord into the cogs and roll it till it is at the front, pull the cord across the rear pulley. That will show you how they are aligned.
I know that works, I've used it, and that is how we aligned pumps with the pulleys on drilling rigs.
Okay, that is Static alignment.
The belt tension is really important. Mine is noisy and I have plenty of experience and know how to do it right.
It's not screeching,but it's not quiet.
Just read up on belt tension and get the pulleys aligned .
If it's not silent, then either accept it or use talcum powder or canning wax on the belt.
If you do that then you'll have eliminated the belt as the source.

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JDNewYork

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Re: Help after a fall
Reply #32 - 01/05/17 at 03:26:16

[/quote]

The belt will, for some reason, be noisier wet than dry.
You discovered the click after the wet fall. You're naturally focused on
Is there damage from the fall
Even though You were the landing pad for the bike.
The belt tension comes to mind. Alignment is a controversial subject. Under acceleration, the rear pulley is put under loads I couldn't begin to calculate. Expecting it to stay perfectly parallel to the center line of the rim seems a bit starry eyed. It's not Just a machine , it's an Inexpensive and old design. It ain't Perfikk.
If you pull the front pulley cover and put a light cord into the cogs and roll it till it is at the front, pull the cord across the rear pulley. That will show you how they are aligned.
I know that works, I've used it, and that is how we aligned pumps with the pulleys on drilling rigs.
Okay, that is Static alignment.
The belt tension is really important. Mine is noisy and I have plenty of experience and know how to do it right.
It's not screeching,but it's not quiet.
Just read up on belt tension and get the pulleys aligned .
If it's not silent, then either accept it or use talcum powder or canning wax on the belt.
If you do that then you'll have eliminated the belt as the source.
[/quote]

We had mentioned earlier in the post that maybe the noises were 'all in my head' but that is certainly not the case, has gotten progressively louder and more obvious that it is the rear wheel alignment that is a little out, I do also think that the belt is running way too tight (especially after reading that ideally you should be able to pinch the belt at 90 degrees, there is NO chance of pinching my belt at all on inspection).

My real issue now is that I live right in the middle of New York City so simply popping the bike up on a jack or wood blocks is easier said than done, given I have to work on my bike at the roadside.

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JDNewYork

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Re: Help after a fall
Reply #33 - 01/05/17 at 06:13:20

Dave wrote on 01/04/17 at 18:09:20:

All those white lines across the belt indicate cracks in the outer cover, which can be caused by running your belt too tight.

Do you think the white lines could have been caused from driving with the belt too tight just for a few miles since laying the bike down Dave or is that more of a sign of prolonged use with the belt too tight?

I am just wondering, as I have just ordered a simple crank stand jack so I can perform the necessary maintenance (wasnt super expensive and I consider it a good investment to be able to lift the bike when needed in the future) but wanna know if running the bike for the next few days while I wait for delivery of the jack is going to compromise the belt to the point of breakage?

I honestly think that the belt was probably too tight anyways and the accident has just thrown the back wheel out of alignment a smidge creating the squeak. And therefore doing another 30 miles on it on my commute the next few days isnt really going to do any harm....but ,maybe I am an idiot!? Huh

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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18101 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Help after a fall Reply #34 - 01/05/17 at 06:21:14 The white lines are caused by a long term overly tight condition....and the white smudges don't show up immediately after the cracks have formed. Your belt has most likely been too tight for a long time.
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JDNewYork

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Re: Help after a fall
Reply #35 - 01/05/17 at 06:55:04

Dave wrote on 01/05/17 at 06:21:14:

The white lines are caused by a long term overly tight condition....and the white smudges don't show up immediately after the cracks have formed. Your belt has most likely been too tight for a long time.

Thats what I thought, so I will run her a little crooked just for the next few days and then get her butt in the air to do some adjustments to the wheel and belt.

Just also wanna say a big thanks to you all for the help with this. I am sure I sound like a real dumbass with some of my questions but this is my first bike and it means a lot to have such a helpful community.

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youzguyz

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Re: Help after a fall
Reply #36 - 01/05/17 at 08:52:21

JDNewYork wrote on 01/05/17 at 06:55:04:

Dave wrote on 01/05/17 at 06:21:14:

The white lines are caused by a long term overly tight condition....and the white smudges don't show up immediately after the cracks have formed. Your belt has most likely been too tight for a long time.

Thats what I thought, so I will run her a little crooked just for the next few days and then get her butt in the air to do some adjustments to the wheel and belt.

Just also wanna say a big thanks to you all for the help with this. I am sure I sound like a real dumbass with some of my questions but this is my first bike and it means a lot to have such a helpful community.

You don't really HAVE to put the bike in the air to adjust the tension.. it just makes it a LOT easier to see what is going on.
Just loosen up the axle nut a bit and twiddle with the adjusters.

If you need to move an adjuster to move the axle to the rear you need to make sure the axle is up against the adjuster screw before you tighten the axle nut. Tap the axle nut/bolt on that side with a hammer to move the axle back to the adjuster screw.

Loosen axle, play with adjusters, tap axle with hammer, tighten axle (slightly so it can't move), see how it looks (check tension (90 degree twist test), roll bike and observer belt)

Lather, rinse, repeat.

When it looks good, tighten axle bolt completely.

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JDNewYork

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Re: Help after a fall
Reply #37 - 01/05/17 at 09:15:37

youzguyz wrote on 01/05/17 at 08:52:21:

JDNewYork wrote on 01/05/17 at 06:55:04:

Dave wrote on 01/05/17 at 06:21:14:

The white lines are caused by a long term overly tight condition....and the white smudges don't show up immediately after the cracks have formed. Your belt has most likely been too tight for a long time.

Thats what I thought, so I will run her a little crooked just for the next few days and then get her butt in the air to do some adjustments to the wheel and belt.

Just also wanna say a big thanks to you all for the help with this. I am sure I sound like a real dumbass with some of my questions but this is my first bike and it means a lot to have such a helpful community.

You don't really HAVE to put the bike in the air to adjust the tension.. it just makes it a LOT easier to see what is going on.
Just loosen up the axle nut a bit and twiddle with the adjusters.

If you need to move an adjuster to move the axle to the rear you need to make sure the axle is up against the adjuster screw before you tighten the axle nut. Tap the axle nut/bolt on that side with a hammer to move the axle back to the adjuster screw.

Loosen axle, play with adjusters, tap axle with hammer, tighten axle (slightly so it can't move), see how it looks (check tension (90 degree twist test), roll bike and observer belt)

Lather, rinse, repeat.

When it looks good, tighten axle bolt completely.

Good to know, the jack has already shipped so I think I will take the option that is a LOT easier!! should arrive within a few days Cheesy

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Help after a fall Reply #38 - 01/05/17 at 11:09:51 Loosen axle and adjusters, put in gear, pull clutch in, roll backwards, pop clutch, wheel moves forward. By keeping the slack on the lower half of the belt you can get the tension right.
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ohiomoto

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Re: Help after a fall
Reply #39 - 01/05/17 at 11:29:53

I would check to make sure (one side of) the wheel didn't slip backwards. It it did, there will be a little space between the adjuster bolt and the swingarm. This happens sometimes in crashes but it normally takes a good hit to move a wheel if it was properly secured.

If it did, you probably want to get it back to the precrash setting before you go changing everything. To do that, just loosen the axle bolt ( but not the adjusters), pop the wheel forward (as described above) making sure both adjuster bolts are seated against the swingarm. Then tighten the axle and you should be exactly where you were before the crash.

If the noise is gone, great. (Now you can deal with making sure the belt tension is correct.) If the noise is still there, then you may have other problems (which is why you wanted to get the wheel back to the pre crash state right??? Wink

). You might want to make sure the swingarm didn't get bent or pushed over. Our swingarm is pretty light duty. Did the frame get tweaked? Any issues with motor mounts?

Most of this stuff sounds unlikely since you cannot find any other damage to the bike, but if the wheel did move then it hit something hard enough to cause other issues.

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JDNewYork

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Re: Help after a fall
Reply #40 - 01/05/17 at 11:38:12

I really dont think the frame or swingarm is bent in any way and no problem with the motor mounts.

Definitely gonna give this a try....when you say loosen the axle bolt are we talking loosen just a little or loosen completely? I dont wanna dump the clutch and have the wheel pop way too far forward because I loosened too much. Again apologies if this is a dumb question but I would rather ask a dumb question before attempting something for the first time than not an screw things up more!!

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Help after a fall Reply #41 - 01/05/17 at 11:46:38 Loosen the axle enough to slide in the slot. Loosen the adjusters enough to let it move . They decide how far , not the axle. But, they will swing down. It's not hassle free, it's a Look, think, do Project.
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28886 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Help after a fall Reply #42 - 01/05/17 at 11:51:27 Since someone suggested that the axle moved cause of the crash... Before you loosen her up, check the adjuster screws are against the swingarm and in the notches.
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ohiomoto

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Re: Help after a fall
Reply #43 - 01/05/17 at 12:14:16

JDNewYork wrote on 01/05/17 at 11:38:12:

I really dont think the frame or swingarm is bent in any way and no problem with the motor mounts.

Definitely gonna give this a try....when you say loosen the axle bolt are we talking loosen just a little or loosen completely? I dont wanna dump the clutch and have the wheel pop way too far forward because I loosened too much. Again apologies if this is a dumb question but I would rather ask a dumb question before attempting something for the first time than not an screw things up more!!

________________

You may want to YouTube how to adjust a motorcycle chain or belt.

1) Look at the adjusters (one on each side) making sure the lock nuts are still tight and the bots are seated against the back of the swing arm. If everything is tight and properly seated, then we will assume the wheel didn't move. If there is a gap between one of the bolts and swingarm, go to the next step.

2) To get the wheel back to where it started and confirm this is the cause of the noise, loosen the axle (as loose as you want without taking it out) and leave the adjusters as they were. Now pull the wheel forward so that both adjuster bolts are seated. Now tighten the axle up making sure the wheel doesn't move. (When I raced motocross I would just put a small wrench between the chain and sprocket and rotate the wheel enough to pinch it in there. this would pull the wheel forward and hold it there while I tightened the axle.)

3) If the noise is gone, then you've confirmed that was the cause. You might want to repeat these steps to get proper tension.

As I mentioned, I use to race motocross and have seen a lot of bashed up bikes. You normally want to tackle one thing at a time and try and return the bike to the state before the crash before you make any other adjustments. If you do to much at once, you may miss the real problem and still have issues.

I doubt you need to worry too much. If you want to loosen it up and adjust everything at once, have at it.

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JDNewYork

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Re: Help after a fall
Reply #44 - 01/06/17 at 12:21:46

Does anyone know the bolt sizes are on the axle, its a 17mm on one side and the other is larger than the biggest socket/wrench I have (20mm), I always wish the Clymer manual would give you these kind of details but it also just simply says 'loosen bolts'

Just wanna be able to go to Home Depot and grab a new socket, I pretty much refuse to ever use my adjustable wrench

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